Dungeon 4 Turn 4
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Lara and Kamau join Ricki at the barricade, luckily avoiding any damage as they run past the rats in the other room. They fairly easily demolish the obstacle, while Ricki takes Kamau’s sword and heads through another rat tunnel.
Ricki emerges in the isolated chamber in the second room. She advances on the oddly-coloured rat and
“OH GOD!!”
Ricki cuts the rat in half, but not before it manages to deal 2 damage to her.
She might be imagining it, but Ricki feels like she can hear a faint click from somewhere above her. She is quite certain, however, that she can hear Kamau groan in frustration one room over.
https://bit.ly/dungeon-eyes-map
I made a shortlink to the map
Kamau: Take the longsword from Lara and attack a plague rat
Ricki: Go back through the hole and attack the other plague rat
Lara: Finish off Ricki’s plague rat
I’m not averse to this strategy, but we’ve determined plague rats have 3 attack and giving the shield to Lara gives everyone 3 defense, so as long as the attacks are split, there’s no damage. However, we are now in the range where Kamau might leave if rats gang up, and if they gang up on Ricki that would be game over, so I’d err on the side of Lara taking damage.
Kamau: Give a set of thieves tools and armour to Lara, attack the plague rat on the chest with your Hilt.
Ricki: Go back through the hole, attack same plague rat as Kamau (total 7 damage).
Lara: Using longsword and wearing armour, attack the other plague rat, lighting room with off hand (and maybe discouraging rats from attacking you due to fire in the way).
Four damage kills a dire rat, these are deadlier but unclear if tougher. We could also split attacks to deal 5 damage to each one (Kamau longsword and Ricki longsword plus Sting) but this setup errs on Kamau not holding useful equipment in case of Remorse.
HOLY EFF. that red rat did SEVEN damage. Here’s hoping we never run into more than one at the same time.
Ricki: double move back to the red chest. When passing Kamau, give him the shield.
Kamau: accept and eqip shield, then interpose. End turn away from the rats, but not in the lowest level of the room.
Lara: loot the chest next to the two green dire rats, then move left to the red chest. If going to the red chest is not possible, end turn away from the rats, but not in the lowest level of the room.
The next turn is turn 5, after all. That means the lowest level of the dungeon will flood.
In case that means that our characters can’t pass through the lowest level of the dungeon anymore (because we can’t swim or dive), I don’t want Ricki to get stuck “behind” the lowest level. We need her to be able to reach the exit, even to abandon the dungeon. We can try more stuff, once we know more about “water filled levels” but for now, it is too risky IMHO.
Also, I’m super glad that the two green dire rats didn’t attack Ricky last turn. Else she would be DEAD now.
EDIT: I did change my suggestion a bit, now including Ricki passing the shield to Kamau, so he doesn’t take damage from blocking those two green dire rats from hurting Lara, making it even safer.
How much damage are the plague rats going to do to Kamau?
One plague rat has 3 attack (found that out in turn 3 of dungeon 4), so between 2 of them and Kamaus defense, that will be 2 more HP off Kamau, thus reducing him to 5.
It’s not ideal, but the tight timeframe of this dungeon calls for interpose and loot rather than try and kill everything dead.
I wish we still had the tarnished solar armour, then we wouldn’t have Kamau get hurt so much.
Maybe we can at some point pass the shield to Kamau, but we need Ricki to go to the lever at least two more times, if we are going after those three chests in the second level in the entry room.
… Actually, if we have Ricki lend Kamau the shield for this turn (this turn she doesn’t need it), we can avoid him taking any damage.
According to
https://bit.ly/dungeon-eyes-enemies
it will be 3 per rat without defense of Kamau.
I hope a little that the “flooding” isn’t an instant event. Water tends to rise up. I imagine it progressing over time. If it takes 5 turns, before stages, then maybe one-third of a stage per turn, so we get visually steady rise of the water over the whole quest time, instead of just flash&flooded. But I’d have to count how does that fit 20 turn limit, where we were told it will be totally full of water. Anyways, we’ll see shortly. I hope more our team has basic swimming skills. And. HoHo, what is in the red chest! Treasure? Useful item maybe?
From turn 0, dungeon 4:
The way I read it, that means at turn 5 (I’m hoping at the end of it, rather than at the beginning of it), the lowest level of the dungeon will be FULL of water.
If the rising was happening gradually even within those 4 stages (which I assume correspond with the 4 levels of the dungeon), it should already have started to show/rise in the first four turns.
Alternative option, having NO char trapped “behind” the water at the end of turn 5:
Ricki: double move back to the red chest. When passing Kamau, give him the shield.
Kamau: accept and eqip shield, go left then interpose. End turn away from the beaver dire rats, but not in the lowest level of the room.
Lara: move left, then loot the chest next to the two beaver dire rats. end turn away from the beaver dire rats, but not in the lowest level of the room.
There’s no point spending Interpose to cover one person’s action when Kamau can just do that action himself and free the other person up.
This isn’t to say Interpose for one other person is useless; there are lots of actions Kamau can’t take (including “attack accurately without light”), and of course this allows controlling what happens when running by enemies. In this particular case though, Lara can do something else.
Ricki: Double-move, out the rat hole, to the room to the left, by the red chest. Edit2: Pass Kamau the shield when going by him.
Kamau: Edit2: Take the shield from Ricki as she goes by and wield it. Attempt to loot the chest guarded by two green rats, and return to the left by the red chest.
Lara: Go to the red chest and loot it.
This is for if we don’t want to take our chances on the trapped chest. Kamau can probably open the chest without killing the guards. From how-to-play: “Sometimes an enemy is guarding an item, a chest, or a passage. If a character tries to steal a guarded item, loot a guarded chest, or simply run past an enemy without fighting them, the enemy can still attack that character.” So looting a guarded chest sounds like something that’s possible to do. Or maybe that only counts if the enemy isn’t actively sitting on the chest. I think it’s worth the attempt though.
Edit: Main difference between this and gathers is Kamau looting this chest instead of interposing and Lara going off to loot the red chest instead. I think that’s a more efficient use of actions.
The plan if we want to go for the room with three chests looks roughly like this:
turn 6: Ricki: Peek through the rat hole by the red chest, leave it, and go and all the way up past the plague rat and two regular rats. L: Move right to grate and snipe a rat. K interposes for L. Rats go through grate?
Turn 7: Ricki to room 1, past the rat pile. K+L kill a pair of rats if they’re through the grate, else Lara snipe one rat.
turn 8: Ricki to lever. If two more rats died: R hits lever, K loots a chest. K takes 2 damage. Lara…snipes last small rat maybe? Depends on positions of enemies.
turn 9: K loots other chest. Ricki whacks a rat or uses grit. K takes 1-2 damage.
turn 10: K hauls out locked chest, takes 1-2 damage, maybe triggers dauntless. Ricki hits lever again and exits up.
I think the dungeon 2 breakdown suggested that the rats behind the locked grate near the turret snale were trapped, and if we had thrown a ranged attack at the snale from behind the grate to redirect its attention, that they wouldn’t be able to run as it attacked them.
Agreed that it’s a big enough risk to spend one Kamau turn on Intercede. I’ll note that since Ricki can’t safely move onto the next area anyway after being hit, she should take a swing at the enemies she walks past; either clear a small rat or put some damage on the plague rat on turn 6, and hit the pile on turn 7.
The big problem here is that opening a chest is an action and taking a guarded item is an action, and since Ricki needs to handle the lever we only have two actions per turn in there. Using the sphere here would have also been great, since we only take down one rat per attack (Cleave would’ve been nice here). Honestly, I think we’re better off spending the turns exploring room 3 while getting the beaver chest and possibly swimming back to grab the plague rat chest. The risk is that unless Ricki can manage alone in room 3, then Kamau and Lara have no way to contribute for the last 10 turns.
Thought: We can trade items through bars. If we sacrifice a level-up and our last 5 turns, someone could stay behind the grate and loot from turn 11-14, then pass treasures to the others outside who leave and get the trapped person out via abandon.
Good point on abandoning being an option.
Worth noting that venomous barrage on the rat pile instead of sniping single rats would probably clear things faster, not that I’m enthusiastic about blowing corruption.
Yes, beaver chest and room 3 is an option. I’m fine with it. I did want to put down this plan now, to make it clear that doing the three chest room requires committing to it like next turn.
I didn’t put in an attack turn 7 because sometimes we have taken attacks while retreating after attacking (for example Kamau D3T10) and I don’t understand how to be entirely sure that won’t happen. If Ricki takes attacks from the group she’s pulling away from *and* the group she passes next she dies. No attack in turn 6 anyway because going in and out of the rat hole is two moves, and so takes our action. And I prefer having the scouting happen to killing a rat, though you’re allowed to disagree.
Ah, I misread what you meant by peeking through the rat hole. Actually exploring into a new room ends movement, so she couldn’t come back (could use the action to open the red chest first). I agree that seeing our room 3 options should have priority. That does however delay all of Ricki’s actions by a turn, with the grate only opening turn 9. If Lara was sniping all that time and Kamau can take out the pile with 5 damage as the grate opens, then that has the option of opening both unlocked chests turn 10, looting unguarded treasure, and running out of there (ideally dragging locked chest too, but I think we’d need to choose) as Ricki closes the grate and retreats. Not sure this gives more benefit than grabbing the beaver chest, especially if we need to spend a turn or two to get the plague rat loot.
I think that as long as we move away from the fight after attacking, we should be okay. I do really want to discover whether damage to a rat pile reduces its attack (under the logic of killing constituent rats), as that could open up new options.
Whoops, you’re right. “No matter how many rooms a character can normally move through, they can’t move any further if they enter an unexplored room”. Still maybe the way to go. Killing another small rat before opening the grate isn’t such a horrible thing.
I think two chests is probably worth more than one chest, and there’s only so much else we can use Kamau and Lara for. Unless the scouting reveals that we really want them in the third room. Also, if the grab and run works, and the grate blocks small rats, we can have Kamau snag the beaver chest turn 8 for a couple HP without slowing down the three chest room further.
In Turn 6: Give Ricki that shield before moving her, otherwise the rat/plague rat/rat combo, the rat king, and the dire rat/dire rat/rat combo will each hurt Ricki. Without gritting, Ricki would be dead and Kamau in remorse – grit or not. If Ricki rises the square grate before being killed, Kamau and Lara would be trapped in the sewer and drown. TPK ensured. 🙁
Yep. Posted this bit before editing in the first shield swap. Very important to get it back on Ricki if we’re doing this.
If we do this plan, edit in: “I’ll note that since Ricki can’t safely move onto the next area anyway after being hit, she should take a swing at the enemies she walks past;
either clear a small rat or put some damage on the plague rat on turn 6, and hit the pile on turn 7” (from King Marth) and turn 10, and if it turns out that interposing by Kamau is not necessary, Kamau can hit either the plague rat or kill the small rat at the top level in turn 7. Don’t let team members stand around idle if they can do something! Killing rats a) removes threat b) might give rat tails.
Additionally: Ricki has two free inventory spots and no treasure. Maybe transfer some loot to her. Reasoning: 1. We do not want Kamau & Lara run out of inventory when looting while Ricki would have had free space. 2. If something happens and Ricki needs to abandon the dungeon, it would be great if she had the necessary treasure on her. (Would that be 1 Ricki = 1 treasure, or would she need all the 3 treasure?) – And transfer 1 thieves tools from Kamau to Lara, because Kamau has all tools. Never put all eggs in one basket.
My mistake: Do NOT put treasure into Ricki’s inventory (yet)! Reasoning: When Ricki, Lara and Kamau each have 1 treasure in their respective inventory, this dungeon is solved and everybody leaves. But we do not want to leave yet! We want to stuff all inventories to their maximum with treasure (depending on availability of treasure, time, HP,…)!
What to do regarding the inventories in turn 6:
Move the buckler from Kamau to Ricki. Why? Ricki will need it to not get hurt on the way to the lever, at the lever, and on her way back. (And this frees up inventory space of Kamau for looting the chests.)
Move a set of thieves tools from Kamau to Ricki. Why? Ricki later needs the set to open the closed chest anyway. Currently all thieves tools are with Kamau (if remorse, then inaccessible). (And this frees up inventory space of Kamau for looting the chests.)
This leaves one item space of Ricki free, where she can store rat tails, if any are dropped on her way to/at/from the lever. I strongly presume, that rat tails do not count as “shiny treasure” and will not lead to calling the dungeon done. (If going that way, already the free pack of cigarettes and the free set of thieves tools would be “treasure”, but that would be just mean.)
Edited in the shield swap, because that’s a clear improvement on the plan.
Opening a chest is an action, and picking up a guarded item is an action. Can’t do both in one turn unless we try to split attacks.
Is taking items from the chest not considered part of looting said chest?
Genuinely unclear here. D3T10 has Ricki opening the stalkroach chest but not getting the leather, which is the closest thing I can think of. I vaguely recall that Ricki’s inventory was full, but I don’t have a record of inventory turn-by-turn, and it’s hard to reconstruct.
I think she had one thieves tools (which did not break on the door), leather (wearing), holt water and healing potion (traded for on T8), and grave flowers (obtained ???). Kamau didn’t have the grave flowers at that point at least. That’s five items, which would sufficiently explain why she couldn’t take the leather.
Point, the stalkroach is the closest we’ve come to testing that scenario. I’ve definitely read it as opening the chest makes an item available and then it’s a free action to pick the item(s) up, with no enemies around. We might find out, especially if there’s multiple items in the chest.
Especially since you point out that the plague rat sitting on the chest might physically prevent looting, I’m okay with this plan giving Lara a guaranteed action this turn which gives us the puzzle chest loot. If we need to swim back to the plague rat chest to get the loot, then we can (probably) do that.
Why don’t we ignore the 3 chest room and just get beaver and plague rat chests? That will make 3 chests of well defended loot.
All this running past enemies, sniping rats, flipping levers, pushing chests have a lot of moving parts to the plan and if anything goes wrong we’re in trouble. I say take the 3 we know we can get and go. The only assumption for getting the plague and beaver chest is that we can swim through a section of water.
I think it’s worthwhile to spell out here how much work would be involved with getting anything out of that room. It’s a juicy target, and it’s not impossible to get in there, but it is a lot of effort and the reward is only at the end.
I am curious now if all the levers move all the grates, and if we can flip the soon-to-be underwater lever in room 2. That would lock someone in with beavers for a bit, but with another five turns we could pretty comfortably clear out enemies and get all three of those chests.
I agree to put priority on the chests we can already access.
If this is possible: do this. If it is not possible: Do that https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-4-turn-4/#comment-3150
Second option:
Ricki: Loot the obviously trapped chest with a rat tail poking out. Exit the rat hole.
Kamau: Attempt to loot the chest guarded by two green rats, and return to the left by the red chest.
Lara: Go to the red chest and loot it.
The chest is very obviously trapped with an enemy in it. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have loot. The stalkroach chest last dungeon had leather armor in it after all.
This plan will also require that Ricki take a short swim on turn 6. Shouldn’t be a major issue, but I want to be clear about that.
Things are tight, and not every chest we can get to will necessarily have the treasure we need to level from this dungeon. This one is already in reach. There’s an obvious price to pay for opening it, but there are no chests that won’t cost us something, in turns or HP or items.
Not knowing how water works is a pain here. We very clearly won’t be able to both open the chest and take the loot because the chest is full of rats which will stop us from taking the loot on the same turn, and then loot and rats are flooded. Maybe that washes rats away and we can swim for the loot that would otherwise be stuck in a chest we can’t open underwater. Maybe the loot is washed away while rats swim to dry land and attack. Maybe the right play is to leave the chest underwater, drown the rats (or they take poison damage from sewer water contact), then swim to open it and grab now-unguarded loot.
“Very clearly” has citation needed. This is very similar to stalkroach though, with enemies and loot in chest.
Ricki: Move back through the rat hole, give shield to Lara, take a set of thieves tools from Kamau, dash left to the red chest.
Kamau: Give armour to Lara, open plague rat chest, head left
Lara: Grab guarded loot from plague rat chest while using armour and shield, head left
With shield on Lara, both Kamau and Lara have 3 defense so as long as plague rats split their attacks then they collectively take no damage. If plague rats focus Lara then Kamau takes 2 more Remorse (with the leather armor on her instead) so he doesn’t leave yet, while plague rats focusing on Kamau would spend 3 more HP instead of 2 more.
This then ends turn with everyone past water area, though we’ll see how water movement works and when flooding happens on those turns divisible by 5. Otherwise, I’d like to try taking out at least one plague rat this turn to make future loot turns safe.
We got a puzzle chest!
lmao the bite panel
Alright, the chest seems trapped, seeing the rat tail. I’d say do not open and go back out, while kamau attacks the green rats.
I love how beavers have yellowish teeth. So life-like.
Ricki: move back through hole, attack plague rat. Give shield to Kamau.
Lara: attack same plague rat as Ricki
Kamau: take shield from Ricki, interpose
With this, next turn we can kill and loot the chest , but we’ll have to swim. Then we can engage beavers chest while we work our way out.
In hindsight: yes.
Our hints on water:
Paws: I’m sure you can all swim, but you do need to breathe eventually
I think that movement through water will be possible as long as you don’t end turn underwater. The plague rat chest will be in a bubble that we can probably still access by swimming through the flooded bottom layer (though only because we cleared the barricade). At turn 10, there will be nowhere to breathe in that area. Also possible that swimming is an action as well as movement.
Lara: Better to not touch the sewer water at ALL.
It’s possible that touching the water will cause damage (poison damage?). This might just be realistic revulsion at the sewer level, though.
Ending turn 5 in room 1 means we’d only need to pay any cost for going through water once if we want the plague rat chest. Ending turn 5 in room 2 lets us choose between paying that unknown cost twice to get the plague rat chest or not at all, and if we can swim for free then we’re good.
There might be a problem with diving through a flooded area for Kamau, if no light is provided (either because Lara is in another room or because Lara is swimming, too, and therefore can’t have the torch out to provide light, because the water would extinguish it).
Maybe we could have Lara – who can see in the dark, too – hold hands with Kamau while diving out of the flooded area in order to guide him.
But yes, not having all/enough details about the whole “underwater” and the effects of it on our characters is unnerving and really not helping when trying to plan our actions.
I think Lara’s comment about not wanting to touch the water at all is just because it’s gross, not because of a game mechanic. Paws comment is telling us we can move through flooded sections but either can’t end underwater or we suffer a penalty if we do. This isn’t rising lava or acid, so let’s not get too paranoid about the water plz?
“In many cities, sewage (or municipal wastewater) is carried together with stormwater, in a combined sewer system, to a sewage treatment plant. In some urban areas, sewage is carried separately in sanitary sewers and runoff from streets is carried in storm drains.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewerage) Let’s just
hopeassume this is storm drains only…I see some people suggest we open the chest by the plague rats. Isn’t that chest locked? It has a dash on the lock instead of the rectangle we usually see in unlocked chests. With Ricki being the only one able to use thieve’s tools, and since we’ll need Kamau to interpose until that chest is looted, I don’t see how we’ll manage to open the chest, loot its content and get out before the water level raises. We’ll lose at least 2 turns to loot plague chest, and I think this will make looting the room with the 3 chests nuch harder.
I think we are better off moving all characters to the red chest.
golden (yellow) lock = open
silver (grey) lock = closed
Other way around, the rectangle is on locked chests. The three chest room has two unlocked and one locked. To me, the plague rat chest looks identical to the unlocked chest at the opening of the chapel, with the cracked buckler. Please do point out any differences, Ricki can see new types of trap now.
We definitely won’t be able to get everything. I don’t think we can get everything we can currently see, and there’s another room.
ricki, head back through the hole and run on back towards the demon chest.
kamau: as ricki runs past you, take her armor and shield, and go open the chest (taking things inside of it). Should only take 1 damage.
lara, follow ricki back to demon chest
Kamau and Ricki both have leather armor. I presume its defenses do not stack if you have two in your inventory? Already taking the shield should keep Kamau save from attacks.