Ricki ties off the third rope and climbs it to retrieve the thieves’ tools she set aside previously. She and Kamau then descend the ladder and get ready for another fight.
Centipedes have 4 atk right? I don’t know if it’ll change targets to Ricki but better safe than sorry.
And throwing the dagger will add +1 damage vs using the pope hat, and item pickup is free when unattended, so we can continue onto the winch immediately once we’re done.
To be explicit: Throw the dagger at the centipede, and not at the sun-head or bats.
Baargo
2 years ago
Before we use the winch, let’s try and talk to the Drow one more time. If she’s not deaf and has only been ignoring Ricki so far, she might want to know that we’re about to ring the huge bell right next to her.
When we met Kamau, he also didn’t want to talk to Ricki. Only when she tossed him the hilt, he was open to anything more than saying “leave me to rot in this cell here”.
So I think that we need to do a specific thing to get the Drow’s attention. She’s either ignoring us, in which case we should try to talk to her again and say “Hey, seems like you’re ignoring us, which is fine, but we need to ring this huge-ass bell and are about to do it right about now. So this is a heads up.” Maybe she’ll respond to that. If not, I think we should try and get Ricki up to the drow’s level. She could be deaf after all, although I don’t believe that this is the case, or a visual interaction is required. And we should try to do all this before we ring the bell.
Also, what do you people expect to happen when we ring the bell? Undead stop spawning permanently? All undead die in an instant? The guards in front of the chapel said that the bell used to ring every day at noon. So maybe a part of the main objective is making sure that there’s a clear and safe passage from the entrance to the winch so that someone can enter the chapel every day and ring the bell.
The dungeon ends immediately when the bell is rung. That’s the goal here. We’ll go to straight to a cutscene afterwards.
This obsession with ringing the bell is foolish; get the drow recruited first. Did we even ask Kamau about this yet? Remember the ape outside the dungeon could use handsigns? And the hobgoblin could read them?
Goal: Permanently stop the skeletons from wandering out of the chapel and into the surrounding neighbourhood.
There’s a possibility that ringing the bell does achieve this (at least it’s hinted at in the intermission https://dungeoneyes.com/intermission-2-page-19/ ), but there’s also a possibility that this isn’t the way/enough and we’ll have to do something else (in addition to ringing the bell).
E.g. if the ominous feeling of turn 50 was caused by a necromancer surfacing (or something else that would cause more skeletons to become active/wandering), then we might have to best that necromancer in order to fulfill the dungeon goal.
At one moment, I had an idea of pushing the broken bell out of the left window, just for the kicks to see what happens. You know, banging off things when falling, holy area damage, and so on.
But could we instead try pushing it to the RIGHT side, out of the right window, so it falls on the graveyard area, and (probably) blocks the entryway to the chapel for the skeletons?
..in hope they won’t keep spawining until they fill the whole area and start stacking onto each other and then overflow over the wall.. uh oh.. maybe not the greatest idea? 😐
“The dungeon ends immediately when the bell is rung. That’s the goal here. We’ll go to straight to a cutscene afterwards.” I think this is just an assumption as I don’t remember any text posted by LSN that would say that specifically. We only know that the main goal is to “Permanently stop the skeletons from wandering out of the chapel and into the surrounding neighbourhood.” One of the guards in front of the chapel did say that the skeletons wandering out might have something to do with the bell not having been rung in a long time, but that’s just it. I agree that ringing the bell is a necessary condition to achieve the main goal of the dungeon, but we don’t know for sure that it’s the only one condition there is. What I said above can be assumed (and is assumed) from the interaction between our group and the guards just as well.
That said, I’m really advocating the same thing. Recruit the Drow first, then ring the bell and see what happens.
Maybe Ricki could climb the yellow chest and yell through the opening above, or maybe she could attack the window/trapdoor shuttings, as they are a different color (brown) from the walls (black), in order to get the drow’s attention.
About the drow, does anyone think she’s a vampire? She does have fangs. It would be useful to have someone that can turn into a rat or bat and follow Ricki inside the wall openings.
As for plans from here… I don’t think that the secondary objective is at risk, nothing was stopping those four skeletons on the chandelier from walking out. If anything, our completely full inventory might prevent us from holding gold. I’m less worried about Always Prepared as hopefully we’ll have a shop to cash in our loot before the next dungeon starts.
I hope we get some sort of hint on tying the rope to the winch. To restore the alcohol last time we needed to kill the snales as well as correctly setting the valves, we might still need to do something about that broken bell.
I still don’t like that we don’t know what happened on turn 50.
The drow is three rooms away. One turn of double climb, one turn to climb and make one more attempt at contact (shooting light into field of vision, examining and plucking the webs, loudly announcing we’ll be ringing the bell shortly), one turn double descend, then descend and turn the crank. We could even split up and have Ricki poke the bird while Kamau gets bell ringing ready; that would also let us see what happens up top as the bell rings. I would still want Kamau to follow up top, in case something bad arrived up there plus he’d be needed for Ricki to get out the window on the right to send a signal. That would push us past turn 60.
I didn’t see any mention of killing the sunhead near the winch. Does that mean he gets to live?
Also, why do we try to kill the centipede? Even if a poison gland would drop, we don’t have room in the inventory to store it. Plus it isn’t guarding anything interesting, unless you plan to send Ricki solo against yet another sunhead in front of an unlocked chest in the room above (those two rat tunnels line up). And it (centipede) doesn’t attack us passing by on the ladder.
If you’re feeling murderous, the sunhead mext to the winch is a much better choice, because he might interfere with the winching whenever we decide to ring the bell. Or even mess with the rope, once we leave.
And I’m all for somewhat hurrying up, but I’d like to at least try more things to get the drow recruited. We haven’t tried the bird yet, we haven’t tried to use something visible at either the window opening (holy bolt shot into the air) or through the grate /wiggling around with an arrow to provide some visual impulse), we haven’t tried if the broken bell is movable by Kamau from the inside, so Ricki might squeeze past to the top floor.
… since in the intermission it says that the chapel was dedicated to a sungod, maybe the sunheads are the original “flock”/staff of this chapel and just went mad or are possessed or something before – or even as a result of – the chapel turning into a dungeon.
Maybe ringing the bell will bring them back to normal/snap them out of it. That would be handy, because then we wouldn’t have to fight them anymore and also, there would be someone around to continue ringing the bell. (Although, I suppose the people from the neighbourhood, who now are on “skeleton guard duty” might take that responsibility over. Ringing a bell once a day seems a lot less hassle than having to stand watch and fend off skeletons.)
In that case we might have to hand back the tarnished armour and the dawn mitre to them, but still, would be worth it. “not everybody dies” (we can’t achieve “everybody lives, just this once!” anymore) is something very worthwhile (at least in my eyes). 🙂
You know, there’s also a chance that ringing the bell will cause sunhead to spawn everywhere 🙂 I just hope that if it happens, then those spawned are not mad as those current.
I think killing the centipede for a random chance at a venom drop (that we can’t even carry right now) is a waste of time when we should be either trying to get the drow’s attention or checking on the graveyard due to turn 50.
The grate is too small to fire even a holy bolt through, and she’s not hearing or not listening to the yelling, so the only thing left I can think of is to bang on the floored bell. If that doesn’t work, then I just hope/assume that dungeon completion is what triggers her to join us.
And graveyard. Checking on it will let us know if we need(ed) to rush the winch or if we have more turns past 60. Raising the chandelier bought us time as Ricki said, but now there’s nothing stopping new spawn from walking right out.
lol wasn’t it you who posted the actions to attack the centipede in this turn? But I agree regardless, we don’t need to fight the centipede unless we don’t want to send Ricki fight that one sunhead solo.
Do I remember well that we have no way of armouring up Ricky against the last sunhead with the chest (can Ricky even wear the sunarmour?), and that Ricky lacks the dmg to win such a fight alone? I’d very like to try out, but not if that’s suicidal mission with zero to none chances.
Re Drow – we didn’t try EYES yet. She’s staring at the window, so we may weave a long thing, shoot a bolt or an arrow, etc, so banging on the bell isn’t the only way left. holy-bolting and scaring the bird away is still quite possible and I’d say, Ricky can do that alone easily.
It would only take one turn to kill the centipede according to my predictions, and we have low-value items still. The poison sac could easily be another damage buff item like the holy water but adding poison damage, and if that stacks then it could make it possible to unlock the puzzle chest; Ricki with longsword is 3 attack, +2 poison and +2 holy vs 5 holy defense would deal 2 damage per turn which could kill a sun-head in three turns.
This also gets more expensive without free light in the room.
There’s a lot of conditionals here, though. It’s a low drop chance, there’s no guarantee that poison and holy water would both stick to the same weapon at the same time, we may not have time to deal with other sun-heads anyway. I’d be happy with just finding out what the drop does since that will inform whether it’s worth trying to get venom sacs in the future, but I can chalk this up to the list of things we won’t get to this time.
+1 for splitting up. I’d send Ricky to try making a final contact, and disturb the bird, and Kamau to clear the patch to the winch. We already saw sunheads shoot Ricky on sight. That may be a difference Ricky=nonhuman, Kamau=human, and maybe it won’t attack Kamau when he tries to move the winch, but I think it’s safer to just let Kamau get rid of that sunhead.
GathersIngredients
2 years ago
Nitpick @LSN: you wrote in the update text of this turn that Ricki did pick up the thieves tools, but she doesn’t have them in her inventory.
Kamau: swap torch against thieves tools with Ricki, Equip tarnished armour, then go down the ladder and attack the sunhead. Ricki: swap with Kamau as above, wait until the sunhead is engaged in combat, and then throw the dagger at the sunhead.
IIRC, the sundheads were angered by someone wearing the armour, so here’s hoping that Ricki doesn’t get shot at. Giving Ricki the torch should enable her to keep on attacking (in melee unfortunately), once the dagger is thrown. The holy bolt won’t help in this case, because the armour does give 4 def against holy damage.
Edit: added in an armour swap, because in turn 5 of dungeon 3, Kamau took two damage when he had no armour on, so he’d likely get 1 damage still, if he wears only the leather armour.
Alternate option (not aiming to kill the sunhead):
Kamau: swap torch against thieves tools with Ricki, equip tarnished armour, then go down the ladder and interpose Ricki: swap with Kamau as above, wait until the sunhead is engaged in combat, and then move past and tie the rope to the winch.
Edit: added in an armour swap, because in turn 5 of dungeon 3, Kamau took two damage when he had no armour on, so he’d likely get 1 damage still, if he wears only the leather armour.
Last edited 2 years ago by GathersIngredients
Tem
2 years ago
Not to sound alarmist, and maybe I am overthinking this, but I noted this: There is a lot (!) of rope at the lover end of the rope, even though we “used up” some rope to tie the knots. To ring the bell, we do not need downward motion, but rotational one. If there is just one nose around the bell’s beam (like a yo-yo when it is down and not coming up), we will pull downward, get no rotation of the beam and therefore no movement and no ringing of the bell. There need to be some loops around the upper beam, which can be uncoiled and coiled up to set the beam into circular motion and thus ring the bell. There is enough rope upstairs that it could be several loops, but it could also be one good but stationary attachment of the rope. When going up/down the rope, we should have noted whether it moved a little bit in vertical direction by our weight.That would indicate rotatability. Otherwise we would first need to get to the bell’s beam and wind around some of the rope… Overthinking, right?!
It might just be me, but the area where the rope is attached to the belfry is all in the colour of the rope, so I think that is actually inteded to signify the needed “rope wound around the axis”, enabling the rotation of the beam and the ringing of the bell.
Krackaboom
2 years ago
The clock is ticking and we don’t even know if ringing the bell will finish the dungeon. Last time the 50 turn was huge risk, and we still don’t know what happened this time. Also recruiting the drow because we know something that Ricki can’t know is metagaming on another level. I say kamau should change his armor and attack this sunhead, Ricki will help and throw a dagger. We wanted to get an extra armor anyway.
I personally would try and recruit any character that’s not hostile, in any dungeon, regardless of whether I saw some kind of prologue on ko-fi or not. So I don’t see the decision to try and recruit this Drow as metagaming. Also, we don’t even know for sure that she can be recruited at all. She also might be just little more than nonhostile NPC anyway. It’s okay and totally worth exploring that kind of possibility, much like it’s okay to think “oh, can we try and tame this” anytime we encounter a new animal.
Kamau: Attack the centipede
Ricki: Throw the dagger
Centipedes have 4 atk right? I don’t know if it’ll change targets to Ricki but better safe than sorry.
And throwing the dagger will add +1 damage vs using the pope hat, and item pickup is free when unattended, so we can continue onto the winch immediately once we’re done.
That’s a throwing dagger, I think it gives higher bonus when thrown.
Edit: oh you mean vs popehat, alright, that’s +1 diff, all correct.
To be explicit: Throw the dagger at the centipede, and not at the sun-head or bats.
Before we use the winch, let’s try and talk to the Drow one more time. If she’s not deaf and has only been ignoring Ricki so far, she might want to know that we’re about to ring the huge bell right next to her.
When we met Kamau, he also didn’t want to talk to Ricki. Only when she tossed him the hilt, he was open to anything more than saying “leave me to rot in this cell here”.
So I think that we need to do a specific thing to get the Drow’s attention. She’s either ignoring us, in which case we should try to talk to her again and say “Hey, seems like you’re ignoring us, which is fine, but we need to ring this huge-ass bell and are about to do it right about now. So this is a heads up.” Maybe she’ll respond to that. If not, I think we should try and get Ricki up to the drow’s level. She could be deaf after all, although I don’t believe that this is the case, or a visual interaction is required. And we should try to do all this before we ring the bell.
Also, what do you people expect to happen when we ring the bell? Undead stop spawning permanently? All undead die in an instant? The guards in front of the chapel said that the bell used to ring every day at noon. So maybe a part of the main objective is making sure that there’s a clear and safe passage from the entrance to the winch so that someone can enter the chapel every day and ring the bell.
The dungeon ends immediately when the bell is rung. That’s the goal here. We’ll go to straight to a cutscene afterwards.
This obsession with ringing the bell is foolish; get the drow recruited first. Did we even ask Kamau about this yet? Remember the ape outside the dungeon could use handsigns? And the hobgoblin could read them?
We don’t know for sure that the dungeon will end, once the bell is rung.
I quote from turn zero (https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-3-turn-0/ ):
There’s a possibility that ringing the bell does achieve this (at least it’s hinted at in the intermission https://dungeoneyes.com/intermission-2-page-19/ ), but there’s also a possibility that this isn’t the way/enough and we’ll have to do something else (in addition to ringing the bell).
E.g. if the ominous feeling of turn 50 was caused by a necromancer surfacing (or something else that would cause more skeletons to become active/wandering), then we might have to best that necromancer in order to fulfill the dungeon goal.
At one moment, I had an idea of pushing the broken bell out of the left window, just for the kicks to see what happens. You know, banging off things when falling, holy area damage, and so on.
But could we instead try pushing it to the RIGHT side, out of the right window, so it falls on the graveyard area, and (probably) blocks the entryway to the chapel for the skeletons?
..in hope they won’t keep spawining until they fill the whole area and start stacking onto each other and then overflow over the wall.. uh oh.. maybe not the greatest idea? 😐
“The dungeon ends immediately when the bell is rung. That’s the goal here. We’ll go to straight to a cutscene afterwards.” I think this is just an assumption as I don’t remember any text posted by LSN that would say that specifically. We only know that the main goal is to “Permanently stop the skeletons from wandering out of the chapel and into the surrounding neighbourhood.” One of the guards in front of the chapel did say that the skeletons wandering out might have something to do with the bell not having been rung in a long time, but that’s just it. I agree that ringing the bell is a necessary condition to achieve the main goal of the dungeon, but we don’t know for sure that it’s the only one condition there is. What I said above can be assumed (and is assumed) from the interaction between our group and the guards just as well.
That said, I’m really advocating the same thing. Recruit the Drow first, then ring the bell and see what happens.
Maybe Ricki could climb the yellow chest and yell through the opening above, or maybe she could attack the window/trapdoor shuttings, as they are a different color (brown) from the walls (black), in order to get the drow’s attention.
About the drow, does anyone think she’s a vampire? She does have fangs. It would be useful to have someone that can turn into a rat or bat and follow Ricki inside the wall openings.
As for plans from here… I don’t think that the secondary objective is at risk, nothing was stopping those four skeletons on the chandelier from walking out. If anything, our completely full inventory might prevent us from holding gold. I’m less worried about Always Prepared as hopefully we’ll have a shop to cash in our loot before the next dungeon starts.
I hope we get some sort of hint on tying the rope to the winch. To restore the alcohol last time we needed to kill the snales as well as correctly setting the valves, we might still need to do something about that broken bell.
I still don’t like that we don’t know what happened on turn 50.
The drow is three rooms away. One turn of double climb, one turn to climb and make one more attempt at contact (shooting light into field of vision, examining and plucking the webs, loudly announcing we’ll be ringing the bell shortly), one turn double descend, then descend and turn the crank. We could even split up and have Ricki poke the bird while Kamau gets bell ringing ready; that would also let us see what happens up top as the bell rings. I would still want Kamau to follow up top, in case something bad arrived up there plus he’d be needed for Ricki to get out the window on the right to send a signal. That would push us past turn 60.
I didn’t see any mention of killing the sunhead near the winch. Does that mean he gets to live?
Also, why do we try to kill the centipede? Even if a poison gland would drop, we don’t have room in the inventory to store it. Plus it isn’t guarding anything interesting, unless you plan to send Ricki solo against yet another sunhead in front of an unlocked chest in the room above (those two rat tunnels line up). And it (centipede) doesn’t attack us passing by on the ladder.
If you’re feeling murderous, the sunhead mext to the winch is a much better choice, because he might interfere with the winching whenever we decide to ring the bell. Or even mess with the rope, once we leave.
And I’m all for somewhat hurrying up, but I’d like to at least try more things to get the drow recruited. We haven’t tried the bird yet, we haven’t tried to use something visible at either the window opening (holy bolt shot into the air) or through the grate /wiggling around with an arrow to provide some visual impulse), we haven’t tried if the broken bell is movable by Kamau from the inside, so Ricki might squeeze past to the top floor.
… since in the intermission it says that the chapel was dedicated to a sungod, maybe the sunheads are the original “flock”/staff of this chapel and just went mad or are possessed or something before – or even as a result of – the chapel turning into a dungeon.
Maybe ringing the bell will bring them back to normal/snap them out of it. That would be handy, because then we wouldn’t have to fight them anymore and also, there would be someone around to continue ringing the bell. (Although, I suppose the people from the neighbourhood, who now are on “skeleton guard duty” might take that responsibility over. Ringing a bell once a day seems a lot less hassle than having to stand watch and fend off skeletons.)
In that case we might have to hand back the tarnished armour and the dawn mitre to them, but still, would be worth it. “not everybody dies” (we can’t achieve “everybody lives, just this once!” anymore) is something very worthwhile (at least in my eyes). 🙂
You know, there’s also a chance that ringing the bell will cause sunhead to spawn everywhere 🙂 I just hope that if it happens, then those spawned are not mad as those current.
I think killing the centipede for a random chance at a venom drop (that we can’t even carry right now) is a waste of time when we should be either trying to get the drow’s attention or checking on the graveyard due to turn 50.
The grate is too small to fire even a holy bolt through, and she’s not hearing or not listening to the yelling, so the only thing left I can think of is to bang on the floored bell. If that doesn’t work, then I just hope/assume that dungeon completion is what triggers her to join us.
And graveyard. Checking on it will let us know if we need(ed) to rush the winch or if we have more turns past 60. Raising the chandelier bought us time as Ricki said, but now there’s nothing stopping new spawn from walking right out.
lol wasn’t it you who posted the actions to attack the centipede in this turn? But I agree regardless, we don’t need to fight the centipede unless we don’t want to send Ricki fight that one sunhead solo.
Do I remember well that we have no way of armouring up Ricky against the last sunhead with the chest (can Ricky even wear the sunarmour?), and that Ricky lacks the dmg to win such a fight alone? I’d very like to try out, but not if that’s suicidal mission with zero to none chances.
Re Drow – we didn’t try EYES yet. She’s staring at the window, so we may weave a long thing, shoot a bolt or an arrow, etc, so banging on the bell isn’t the only way left. holy-bolting and scaring the bird away is still quite possible and I’d say, Ricky can do that alone easily.
It would only take one turn to kill the centipede according to my predictions, and we have low-value items still. The poison sac could easily be another damage buff item like the holy water but adding poison damage, and if that stacks then it could make it possible to unlock the puzzle chest; Ricki with longsword is 3 attack, +2 poison and +2 holy vs 5 holy defense would deal 2 damage per turn which could kill a sun-head in three turns.
This also gets more expensive without free light in the room.
There’s a lot of conditionals here, though. It’s a low drop chance, there’s no guarantee that poison and holy water would both stick to the same weapon at the same time, we may not have time to deal with other sun-heads anyway. I’d be happy with just finding out what the drop does since that will inform whether it’s worth trying to get venom sacs in the future, but I can chalk this up to the list of things we won’t get to this time.
+1 for splitting up. I’d send Ricky to try making a final contact, and disturb the bird, and Kamau to clear the patch to the winch. We already saw sunheads shoot Ricky on sight. That may be a difference Ricky=nonhuman, Kamau=human, and maybe it won’t attack Kamau when he tries to move the winch, but I think it’s safer to just let Kamau get rid of that sunhead.
Nitpick @LSN: you wrote in the update text of this turn that Ricki did pick up the thieves tools, but she doesn’t have them in her inventory.
Kamau: swap torch against thieves tools with Ricki, Equip tarnished armour, then go down the ladder and attack the sunhead.
Ricki: swap with Kamau as above, wait until the sunhead is engaged in combat, and then throw the dagger at the sunhead.
IIRC, the sundheads were angered by someone wearing the armour, so here’s hoping that Ricki doesn’t get shot at. Giving Ricki the torch should enable her to keep on attacking (in melee unfortunately), once the dagger is thrown. The holy bolt won’t help in this case, because the armour does give 4 def against holy damage.
Edit: added in an armour swap, because in turn 5 of dungeon 3, Kamau took two damage when he had no armour on, so he’d likely get 1 damage still, if he wears only the leather armour.
Alternate option (not aiming to kill the sunhead):
Kamau: swap torch against thieves tools with Ricki, equip tarnished armour, then go down the ladder and interpose
Ricki: swap with Kamau as above, wait until the sunhead is engaged in combat, and then move past and tie the rope to the winch.
Edit: added in an armour swap, because in turn 5 of dungeon 3, Kamau took two damage when he had no armour on, so he’d likely get 1 damage still, if he wears only the leather armour.
Not to sound alarmist, and maybe I am overthinking this, but I noted this: There is a lot (!) of rope at the lover end of the rope, even though we “used up” some rope to tie the knots. To ring the bell, we do not need downward motion, but rotational one. If there is just one nose around the bell’s beam (like a yo-yo when it is down and not coming up), we will pull downward, get no rotation of the beam and therefore no movement and no ringing of the bell. There need to be some loops around the upper beam, which can be uncoiled and coiled up to set the beam into circular motion and thus ring the bell. There is enough rope upstairs that it could be several loops, but it could also be one good but stationary attachment of the rope. When going up/down the rope, we should have noted whether it moved a little bit in vertical direction by our weight.That would indicate rotatability. Otherwise we would first need to get to the bell’s beam and wind around some of the rope… Overthinking, right?!
It might just be me, but the area where the rope is attached to the belfry is all in the colour of the rope, so I think that is actually inteded to signify the needed “rope wound around the axis”, enabling the rotation of the beam and the ringing of the bell.
The clock is ticking and we don’t even know if ringing the bell will finish the dungeon. Last time the 50 turn was huge risk, and we still don’t know what happened this time. Also recruiting the drow because we know something that Ricki can’t know is metagaming on another level. I say kamau should change his armor and attack this sunhead, Ricki will help and throw a dagger. We wanted to get an extra armor anyway.
I personally would try and recruit any character that’s not hostile, in any dungeon, regardless of whether I saw some kind of prologue on ko-fi or not. So I don’t see the decision to try and recruit this Drow as metagaming. Also, we don’t even know for sure that she can be recruited at all. She also might be just little more than nonhostile NPC anyway. It’s okay and totally worth exploring that kind of possibility, much like it’s okay to think “oh, can we try and tame this” anytime we encounter a new animal.