Dungeon 12 Turn 53
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Ricki leaves the bucket behind and takes the stray harpoon instead. She then heads back to the central well and eats her last clump of oxymoss to avoid drowning.
Amadeusz claws the nearby egg sac to pieces. He takes 1 damage from the burst of poison and another 1 damage from the extremely surprising crab attack. He takes mild consolation in the fact that the crab also takes 1 damage.
Oddly, the poison doesn’t seem to clear up.
Lara stands around and wishes she’d brought her skateboards.
Cordy attacks the uppermost egg sac, but narrowly fails to do enough damage to destroy it. One more good whack should do it, though.
Ooookay. That was another close call as some plans last turn (including mine) had amad end in the central shaft. He’d be dead now.
I wonder, why Ricky is in the CENTER. Ricky was at boss’ room and she has 2 mov. What was the point for her to stay at this place and eat the moss? She could have already been in the leftmost room, with air.
From most-upvoted plan:
> Ricki: Drop the bucket, grab the Harpoon. Head left.
Head left. I suppose that means, Head Left Once, not head to leftmost room. Eh 🙁
That would have killed Ricki. 3 rooms of poison plus skellies is 14 damage.
Thanks, I forgot about poison water damage
Plan: the waiting game
Ricki: move back to bucket. And wait.
Lara: clear your source. Return to petmaster air pocket
Amad: kill the crab out of spite.
Cordy: finish off the source In your room.
The fish will definitely move south next and Ricki will cross their sight and DIE. We’ll have to wait until they move back up to the upper rooms to have Ricki cross safely.
She’ll take a drowning, but can eat her mushy after that to heal. She also has a harpoon she can spend 2 rounds using to avoid the last source dmg if need be
It has been pointed out on discord that the fish may move and attack Ricki even if she falls back (50% chance of going right or left next). This option is still a gamble since their movement will be random after checking the last room
Do we have anything to distract thrm with?Like…if they’re still predatory,we can kill a crab for a steak,& throw it away from us.I can’t think of anything else.
They’re not interested in steak.
Well fcck.That’s a bummer.
Plan: you’re not going to like it.
Lara: clear source
Cordy clear source:
Ricki: move left and destroy last source
Amad: move right and have your mushy attack the fish. Stay back as much as you can and pray.
The fish move 2 so this plan will most likely kill Amad, but prevent the Fish from moving down (cause of combat) and potentially killing Ricki and ending the comic for good. This guarantees Ricki can pass and clear the last source and end the dungeon this turn,. On the off chance the fish all focus only on the mushy, Ricki needs to end the dungeon now
There is some debate still on if Ricki can cross before the fish see and kill her, but based on LSN’s wording: “if you run past a place where enemies are, or are going to be, they can attack.”
I feel that the fish will attack her if she crosses left for sure and may not if she moves right and they go left (50/50 chance)
Since I’m not on Discord, I’ll put my 2¢ in here: If Ricki retreats and the fish catch her I will call BS.
Given the positions of the back half of the swarm, let’s say the nose of the lead fish is at about the midpoint of the tunnel leading into the central shaft right now. From Ricki’s current position, if she swims diagonally (avoiding the skulls!) up to the bucket ledge, she has to cover about 1270 pixels. The lead fish has to cover about 3120 pixels to reach the same spot.
Even stipulating that they’re fish and she’s just a goblin, they would still have to swim at 2.5 times her speed to catch her, and I just don’t buy that.
Plan: BennyHill race to end the dungeon, Amad lives.Lara: clear source, get back to petmaster’s placeCordy: clear source, get out of waterAmad: pick up things to get some value (i.e. all arrows), stay out of waterRicki: move left and destroy last source; keep mushie with you for +1atk; use whatever weapon gives most Atk (sword, harpoon)“stay out of water” at end of turn in case the dungeon hasn’t ended and the fish get back to your room, or in case some new crabs spawnThat doesn’t apply to Ricky, she’ll be in some water anyways, so after attacking/destroying eggsack, stay in water where eggsack is, get air, obviously.Cordy failed to destroy the eggsack in one go, despite having 2 mushies. Ricky has simliar Atk and one mushie. I can imagine Ricky fails to destroy the eggsack in one go, especially if “use whatever weapon is best” is an invalid order.Do not upvote. Might kill Ricky if Dodge doesn’t trigger at skellies.
Why I think it is OK:
To be honest, I’m not sure. I see how Claudious is worried and why he wants to go to the bucket room. Two things are almost sure: The fish will go down, and if Ricky lingers here, she’s done.
But right *now* the fish are above Ricky, and Ricky is at the bottom of the shaft, and the fish are not in the room the Ricky is. She’s not passing them like the skeletons, who are already in the room. We’ve not seen the fish heads peeking into this room. The fish simply are not ‘here’ ‘yet’. They can’t react immediatelly to her actions.
Consider this: if the fish had 1 MOV and Ricky had 1 MOV, they’d step in, Ricky would step out, and there would be no interaction between them. I’m pretty sure we’ve already seen such moments, and it was ‘safe’ for us especially if there were some walls covering our characters from line-of-sight. Maaybe they could hit her if they are ‘vigilant’ (‘exclamation mark’) and ‘notice her’ and have ‘ranged attack’. Shoot her in the foot while she’s on the edge stepping out of the room. Something like that.
Of course, I cant be sure, and I don’t know what would happen if the mov/speed of fish were greater than Ricky’s. Like, she had 1 mov, and the fish had 2 mov. But Ricky has 2 MOV. If fish really have 2 mov (I counted the rooms and turns, seems reasonable guess), then their max-speed is equal. That should mean they can’t get to her at full speed if she runs away at full speed at the same time. In terms of room-by-room walking, they step in, she steps out at the same time. Then they step in again, she steps out at the same time again. The best they get is seeing her go and seeing where to pursue, but no cigar unless she slows down.
I see where the point about going to the bucket comes from. It also is my initial feeling. It seems to be ‘higher chance’ plan, since she’s close to the edge of the room, so fish stepping-in wouldn’t immediately see her while she steps-out, she conceptually doesn’t risk walking/swimming in front of them when they step-in (less chance for a chase, etc), and the only danger is the “speed” of “actions”: If she goes to the bucket and they swim and step-in into the room to the right, Ricky at that moment might be already on the ledge or might be still swimming through the room risking a bite. This we kinda cannot guess. After all, we could expect the fish to be faster in water than a walking/swimming goblin in a suit of armour.
BUT.
2 MOV is 2 MOV. Also, MOV is MOV. If we think that Ricky could go hide at bucket’s place, it’s 1 MOV for her. Going left is also 1 MOV for her. Both movements for her are 1 MOV and the rest of the in-room movement is free, and also, at the time of movement, both directions do not cross any space where the fish are NOW. The ‘left’ direction only crosses where skeletons are now. If she could go to boss room and up on the ledge safely, she could also go left and up to the frogs. Either way, that’s 1 mov, that’s half of her movement. Either way, the fish need 2 mov to get to her, because after 1 mov they will still be one room behind. If ‘mov’ tells anything about speed and order, it should be safe. If it doesn’t, she’s dead regardless if we choose left or right direction, it’s the same distance in terms of mov and in-room movement and also in terms of water/nonwater areas, and it is in-range of fish movement.
Another potential failure option: Left room is actually all-water. Boss room has a dry space on top. Fish won’t be able to go/move on that ledge (can they jump and wiggle on the floor?), but on the left side with eggsack, they theoretically could run after Ricky (can they jump between water pools?). That means dead Ricky if she tries to hide there, but not if she immediatelly destroys the barnacle. In this case we have to hope that ending-the-dungeon has priority than dying-due-to-0-hp-at-the-end-of-turn. If the fish can jump. But then, the dry-land in boss’ room might not be safe either.
Any way I look at this, there’s no real reason to go right to the bucket. We learn more when we go left and finish the dungeon. We learn half of it when we go right and hide. If we guessed wrong, then Ricky dies either way.
Idea to burn or consider: Ask mushie to attack fish entering the room
We cannot order a pet to stay behind when moving between rooms, or fight in a room the owner is not in, but here the fight between mushie and fish would occur in the same room as Ricky is. Can we send a pet to fight without having the owner enter the fight? If yes, then first use 1 mov to go to left/right room and then obviously stay in the room and order mushie to attack the fish that enter the room, owner in the mean time goes to the goal (bucket or eggsack).
Mushie of course dies, but that’s the end-of-turn result. That means Ricky attacking the eggsack should still have it. But it makes no sense, since mushie is not with-her while she attacks the eggsack. Uurgh. Anyways, I’m worried that sending-pet-to-attack might engage the owner in combat and prevent Ricky from going out of the water, so I’m not including this in my plan.
Reinforced skeletons + poison water + source + surprise crab = (3+1+1) + (3+3) + 1 + 1 = 13
Ricki has 9 def (water), and 3 HP.
This kills the Ricki. (unless we get lucky with dodge)
I agree with you over Claudious on how the fish work. But don’t forget to do the math. If we’re doing this, we can’t attack the source this turn. We need to see if we have enough HP. It’s *likely* we’ll dodge an attack, can eat a mushroom, then kill the source, but don’t bet Ricki’s life on it please.
There is no surprise crab at that source. That said, 11 dmg (if no dodge) Does mean she diesif she clears source same turn
Thank you Night and Claudious, I’m bad at minmaxing in this game, always forget something.
Atleast I’m not the one with the most-downvoted comment.
Jokes on you,person who’s offended by my mere existence because the OP still has more downvotes than I do!
Tiny improvement to Claudious’ first plan to try an idea I saw on discord. I’m 99% sure it won’t work, but Ricki’s action is wasted anyway if we dont use it anyway.
Ricki: move back to bucket. While there, ask yourself if you could fool brainless fish into ignoring you like the skulls crabs by using one of the empty skulls.
Lara: clear your source. Return to petmaster air pocket
Amad: loot the arrows and lockpicks. Drop your fishing rod to make space.
Cordy: finish off the source In your room. Move down.
Plan: BennyHill race to end the dungeon, Amad lives, v2
Lara: clear source, get back to petmaster’s place
Cordy: clear source, get out of water
Amad: pick up things to get some value (i.e. all arrows), stay out of water
Ricki: move left, do not attack the eggsack, get air, park where the frogs were.
The fish jumping is unlikely, that’s a guess, but they had some occasions and didn’t. Like when Cordy shot them near the entrance. Ricky takes poison damage, runs past skellies, maybe dodges them, or not. At max it should be:
Reinforced skeletons + poison water +
source + surprise crab= (3+1+1) + (3+3) +1 + 1= 11Ricki has 9 def (water), and 3 HP, so she’d be left at 1 HP worst case.
Then next turn decide – all depending on Dodge.
just attack the eggsack if she dodgedif not dodged, throw a harpoon at the crab for his surprise and lack of surprises for us, eat the shroom to have 2HP and destroy the eggsack next turn
I meeeean if Ricki isn’t breaking the poison sac she might as well pick up her discarded crit item from earlier.
Not if there’s a crab there. Claudious says there isn’t, presumably because there wasn’t on T50, which was the last time we saw that room. But we don’t know for sure that a crab didn’t appear there after T50. I’d rather get eyes on the room first before we commit Ricki to going down to get her greaves.
Why do we think there’s a crab there now?
Because lat time the eggsacks respawned, a skull/crab showed up near them. At least for Cordy and Lara. Not sure about Amad’s.
That’s not exactly the same kind of situation. It’s possible that the fish can’t jump onto flat ground (like where Cordy was) but they can jump over little walls that just barely stick out of the water (like in the bottom left room). That’s why sending Ricki back to the boss room is safer.