Dungeon 6 Turn 53
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Ricki, Macadamia, and Lara all congregate back in the kitchen as part of a plan to defeat the knight. They aren’t sure where they’ll find him, exactly, but they weren’t expecting to find him still in the kitchen, in the process of destroying their pile of items! The healing potion they just bought, as well as the ale, cigarettes, anti-undead items, and even the bucket are rent asunder by the knight’s blade!
Ricki feels a deep, yet vague sense of betrayal, as if some unspoken trust has been violated.
Macadamia is surprised it took this long for something like this to happen.
Lara tries to attack the undead knight. She deals no damage, but she does shatter the chain armour he had put on. There’s a suit of leather armour hiding underneath it, and he’s still carrying that spare shield, but at least he’s a little bit less well defended than he was a second ago.
Ricki dumps her thieves’ tools on the ground since they haven’t ended up helping much.
Lohk accidentally locks herself inside an armoire.
As annoying as this is, it is also frickin hilarious. Hopefully we stop being such hoarders and just use what we get as we get it
It’s just old-fashioned minmaxing, with all the constant inventory shuffling. Of course, there are too many items and we need them all, so it’s like Ultima VII.
If we hadn’t done such in the last dungeons, we’d be dead by now.
We are always balancing in the knife’s edge – if we take too much, we’re “greedy” and “bother LSN with inventory”. However, if we don’t, we don’t get enough numbers to survive future dungeons. Why did we live through the past few dungeons? Because of plate armor. Which cost us gold. And the Magma shield keeping Maca alive? Also result of a “greedy” play.
I agree we wasted actions here. Mostly regarding the safe. I didn’t agree with trying it after the first damage point. Some actions were wasted because we were trying to figure out mechanics. According to LSN, that is part of the game, working as intended. Others, especially the very example which led us to this standoff were caused by people breaking with a five-turn plan with no cause at all.
We did propose ideas to LSN to make his life easier, like changing the inventory page to text-only. Or not auto-picking up dropped items from chests or monsters, but making the first pick-up of those free (so he doesn’t have to change the character page all the time because suboptimal items were picked up and then dropped). Those were not implemented.
We tried to reunite all the items in the pile, and paid good gold for the rabbit paw so we could sell them all at once to minimize inventory shuffle and so the characters could go for the boss fully armed and kill it in at most two turns. This plan was broken in the middle and we have a loss of gold, making us worse prepared for future dungeons.
I can only recommend, for the future, that those voting read the rules. Including the myriad rules not present in the how to play page, that we have painstakingly found out through “greedy” experimentation, and that are only accessible via a pinned post on the discord channel. My understanding is that I cannot post a direct link here or get spam-flagged.
Yeah, it feels like the game has become progressively more complicated each new dungeon, and over time “harder” and less enjoyable with each “update” of the rules/change that has happened.
I am far less invested in participating (suggesting actions and/or voting on them) and/or caring about the characters, than I was in the beginning. Who knows, maybe that’s intentional. (After all, at some point one of the characters is going to kick the bucket and it might be better for all involved if this isn’t a big deal, so less drama ensues.)
The suggesting/voting stems from two things, a) the increasing of “one update per weekday” to “two updates per weekday” (because I am not online in time to make sensible suggestions (that haven’t been made by other people already) in order to get a chance to even get the majority of votes and b) I get the feeling that most stuff is already “done and agreed upon” in the discord channel, where people (at least I imagine this to happen there, I am not on discord myself anymore and I don’t plan to change that, after I saw LSN calling people there “fuckers” for no reason at all) discuss what they want to do and then whoever is online first after an update (often it seems to be “thisnameismeta”) posts the plan and many people from discord vote on it, so independant plans don’t really have a chance to stand up against that.
Actually come to think of it, there is a third reason c) for me not really participating and that is the weird occurrence where the votes changed from being in a landslide lead to being in the negative counts in a matter of hours. I don’t remember when that was, but I think it was when we were trying to decide, who to take with us into this dungeon. That really gave me the impression that it doesn’t make ANY difference at all, if/for which option I vote, because people who have access to more than one IP number can do whatever they want.
It helped little that LSN then gave the majority of the “worded” votes (as in what was written in posts, rather than the sheer number of votes) the win.
The emotional caring about the characters just followed suit, I guess, after I had to realize that I couldn’t really influence what happened to them/what course of action they would take (because even if everthing ran ideally, my vote is just one out of many these days).
On top of that was added my annoyance at LSN “just being a jerk” (his own words – in the stream – not mine) too many a times. Like iirc, we had established that unless we “activated” them, enemies would be “unaware” of us and not attack our characters. And then, all of a sudden enemies could be already activated at the start of the dungeon (like the snales in the tavern or the sunhead in the chapel).
What’s the point of having rules/establishing patterns (by trial and error), if they get changed all the time? It’s just so frustrating.
And LSN said himself repeatedly that he doesn’t adapt the dungeon’s difficulty according to what we have or have not achieved for our group. That’s where I am starting to have a problem. My plea to LSN would be: Either don’t change the rules and let us work within them the best we can and see how far we get (in “unchanged” dungeons, then it is totally up to us how far we go) OR do change the rules as needed (to help you keep on putting out updates at the pace you want to go), but then also do change the dungeons accordingly if/as needed. Making our lives harder (by changing the rules to our disadvantage) and then expecting us to face challenges that were created with a different rule set in mind (where changing items between chars was free) is a “just being a jerk” move and serves only to alienate people, IMHO.
As for the “puzzled together rules” that you, Siv, mentioned. I think someone was archiving them on a page outside of discord here (for people like me, who don’t use discord): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6jWaYKYt5_5SrnDJXSkLry5x5CbretMUpqM1g8dE5g/edit#heading=h.pkedm3nvbg6h
But I don’t know if they are kept up to date.
EDIT: spotted (and removed) some typos
Thank you for posting that link! I did create it, but was afraid of being caught by the spam filter if I posted it here.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post!
Just to clarify a bit on the workings of discord. Usually TNIM tends to post because the plans are his, though we all chip in with amendments whenever possible. When TNIM couldn’t immediately, and nor could I because I was busy enjoying my weekend with my wife, post once recently we were surprised by a “rogue” post (which came from a discord user but did not reflect discord consensus) breaking the plan, which led us to the current situation. So my belief is that most votes either do not come from Discord and/or are manipulated. Or that people thought it was the consensus somehow and tagged along, even though it wasn’t.
Also: yes, I just updated the rules page. I was a bit disheartened lately to do so. Thank you for the reminder.
Well, LSN is the one who played as (and came up with) Ardon so that is kinda to be expected
He created Odi and Ell too. I just wish he’d drop the Ardon persona and talk to us more normally and more often.
There is a difference between what we perceive as a rule and what is actually a rule. We might understand something totally wrong.
No, there have been known changes. Like the inventory rules.
Indeed. It is hard to make any impact when there is a whole “strategy club” with a solid plan for the next 5 turns.
Unfortunately, the game is deadly enough that the strategy club lapsing for One Turn caused this whole debacle. That is why I joined the Discord originally, to have a greater impact. Unfortunately, that is how the game is structured.
I concur. If I have learnt anything playing StS, it is that greedy playstyle CAN kill you, but non-greedy playstyle WILL kill you.
I can understand the idea behind the post, and objectively ISTM at least not unreasonable for a PnP game in a similar situation. I doubt I’d find it convincing, but it isn’t nonsensical in that context.
What I don’t understand though is what provoked the post in the first place, because
a) the reasoning is wrong for DE regardless, even without counting the specifics of the actions; and
b) I fully supported the existing plan, publicly, with no reservations.
I honestly have no idea how or why this happened. It’s not even my style of play: I’m big on building contingencies into plans, and half the point of that is to prevent this sort of panic from surfacing when things come under stress.
I can’t do anything but apologize for it at this point, and clearly should, so: truly, I’m sorry for it.
I have no problem taking responsibility for my mistakes, and I’ll do that here too since I’m the one who made the post – this shitshow couldn’t have happened without that seed, regardless of any other factors – but I’m as lost as anyone why I did so.
Don’t get me wrong: I’m far from infallible, and will often keep looking for a way to make something work even after most people have given up on it. But I’m by no means stupid, and I don’t cling to bad ideas past their end of life just because I came up with them – least of all when I’m swamped IRL like I have been all month.
This whole chain of events makes no sense to me: not just in hindsight, but as a credible future from any point in the past. I may have to own it, but I’m genuinely baffled how it ever came into existence.
Again, my apologies to everyone impacted – which is to say, everyone.
Fear of missing out is what drives a lot of what we do.
When not just the future dungeons, but the current rules are largely unknown that is a normal and rational reaction.
Also, this isn’t like Isle of Starlight, where all pawns were blank sheets, who, if they died, it was mostly a tactical consideration. These are three-dimensional likeable characters we’re very much rooting for!
Didn’t really mean to spark a debate about the voting process. Sorry! I am still enjoying the game and put in my 2 cents when I can in discussions. Besides a game, this is also a good social experiment with elements of fear of missing out. My gamer instincts do want me to get/do everything I can but I always try to remember that it’s not just me in control. Everybody processes risk/reward differently so please keep that In mind when interacting with others
Everyone attack ! (Except Lohk)
We’re going to need the turns to kill this guy
Everybody except Lohk attack the knight. Ricki use your spear to attack, Lara use your greataxe and Mac use your fists. Let Macadamia’s punch be the last bit of damage we need. If the knight dies. Lara pick up one leather armor, Macadamia pick up the ring of aggression and the 2nd leather armor because the knight is also a hoarder, and then Ricki pick up the sword/any unique knight drops and the shield, in that order.
Please, correct me if I’m wrong.
Current knight’s Atk is 5+3(greatsword?)+1(ring of aggression) = 9
If I’m right and if we attack like this and it strikes back using melee attack that hit all targets on same level –
then Ricki is dead with her 3HP+6Def. UPD: not right as she really has 8Def, but 6Def at CHARACTERS page(((. And she has 1Atk (3Atk CHARACTERS page).So current 9 who votes + thisnameismeta, you just making this game to be over right now.Upd. all three hits are equal to 9-11Atk.
The knight has 5+1(+1 if it wears second leather armor)+2(shield)=8-9Def and 2-5HP?
Solution:
Lara uses her ability -3Atk and -3Def before anything else is done. Not sure as if it hits Mac twice with unblockable hit then he is dead.The knight had 8 attack at the most before the ring. Given it used the unblockable damage attack on Ricki when she had 7 defense as well, it probably only had 7 atk, meaning it has 8 now. Frankly if it has 9, after the ridiculousness of the past few turns where the knight has cared more about looting and destroying resources than fighting then LSN should just kill Ricki, because having to wait until turn 55 on this just means at least one and possibly two people will die.
I think it possibly can’t read stats.
No kills for Ricki as she has 8 Def with shield.
Ricki has 7 defense with shield, not 8. Innate defense of 1 + 2 from bat hide +1 from her light armor proficiency +2 from shield + 1 from ring. You’re including the 1 defense from the spear which is why you think it’s 8. With Ricki at 7 defense, if the knight really does 9 then he’ll AoE attack and put Ricki and Mac to 1. The following turn he can aoe again followed by the specter attack to kill Lohk.
Yes. You are right I miscalculated Ricki’s defense it is 7.
Separately, your counts on defense and hp are wrong. The knight has 1-5 hp and 8 defense. The 2nd armor doesn’t stack. We would need 13 damage to guarantee the knight dies, and this config will get 12-14 damage. It’s very likely it kills the knight, but given Ricki only has 6 defense if the knight does 9 she dies.
>The 2nd armor doesn’t stack
It wore chain and leather armor both (but out characters can’t) so we can’t be sure about this.
>but given Ricki only has 6 defense if the knight does 9 she dies.
There is an outdated info on Characters page. If she holds shield then she has 8 Def.
You can only get the benefit from one armor at a time. The leather underneath was just representing the fact that he was carrying both and switched when the better armor broke.
>and this config will get 12-14 damage.
Ricki has 1Atk holding the shield. So Lara 7-9 + Ricki 1 + Mac 1 = 9-11Atk
I clarified that we’re using the spear.
With spear she will be dead if the knight hits her, right?Upd. If it has 4 Atk (I thought it has 5) then not right.
Oh sorry, additionally the knight has 4 base atk, not 5. So if the sword is indeed +3 then he currently had 8 atk, not 9. The sword would have to be +4 to put the knight at 9 now.
Unfortunately, I don’t see other options (though, it is possible there are some) but to attack as thisnameismeta proposes.
One more option is to teleport Lokh to join the fight. But as the knight favors relations with young ones (I mean Lokh), but not with children (others), I think most likely it will be a sacrifice action. And I don’t like it.
If it does an AoE Lohk just dies regardless of damage. If it does 9, Lohk dies with Ricki for no added benefit. If it does 8 the current plan has a 26/27 chance of killing the knight this round. So you’d guarantee we kill Lohk for the benefit of maybe killing the knight this turn to what end?
I just said that this option is bad IMHO.
I believe the downvoting is intended as insurance in case LSN takes it for an action proposal. Not meant as a slight, I believe.
*Accidentally double-posted*
We have only 1 turn to kill the knight. If he won’t be dead on turn 54, he will probably attack Mac because he has less HP than everyone. If that happens, Mac will be dead on turn 55 for sure, unless dungeon ending saves him.
The undead knight: better than a rust monster.
For the sake of comedy, suggesting this for Lohk’s non-action.
Lohk: Try and fail to get out.
Daisy: Go seek help. Be like Lassie when Timmy’s stuck down a well!
There is
Debris: Atk +1 if used as a weapon, or Def +1 if used as a shield.
and
Dagger: Atk +1.
in the entrance room just left of the kitchen. But I do not see a possibility to get them!
Movement: No issue.
Action: Whoever picks them up cannot attack this turn, and if we do not end the knight in turn 54…
If push comes to shove, we can still use Lohk’s “mom senses” to get her out of the armoire. But we should wait to do that until it is safe for her to come out.
Well, if we’re posting for comedy’s sake:
Kamau: enough with this, smash through the door!
Our boy is catatonic outside, but it almost looks like he’s having a relaxing day in his sweet robe.
I still think he’s fighting off the guards.
The knight destroyed Lara’s cigarettes.
THE KNIGHT DESTROYED LARA’S CIGARETTES!!!
How much damage does Lara do when she rages?
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Alternative:
Lara calmly puts away her axe, room gets black, gets colored again, knight is gone and dungeon finished. Ricki: “I do not want to know what happened?” Lara: “Yes.”
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Alternative:
The preceding turns we kept filling potions inside Mac. Let’s just fill in additionally one beer from above (and have Lara and Ricki leave the room). The exploding Mac kills the knight.
KAMAU SMAAAAASH!
And then immediately get Remorse on turn 55.