Dungeon 5 Turn 40
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Ricki hands her heavy pick and shield to Lara in exchange for the lockpicks, which she uses on the double-locked chest. She manages to get one lock open without damaging/discarding her tools, but she can’t use the same set of tools twice in one turn to open the second lock. If she had two separate thieves’ tools kits, or some theoretical set of keys that could open both locks at once, she could do this in one turn. But as it stands she’ll have to open the separate lock next turn if she wants whatever’s in here. Seems like a weird technicality, but there it is.
While Macadamia uses the pick he’s carrying to smif a second ring of aggression, Lara uses her magic lens on the creature below. Seems like it’s called a salavamander, which probably means it’s tougher than a regular salamander. Still no solid clue as to why the kobolds kept it down here.
Kamau disengages from the scorpion up above, taking a hit on the way, then runs down to the rest of the group. He reclaims the ring of protection, chugs the potion of shield, gives the pocket hearth to Macadamia, then jumps down to the floor below to distract the salavamander. He runs past it to try and create an opening for everyone else to flee. Despite his massively bloated Def score, he still takes 4 damage after already getting hit by the scorpion.
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SALAVAMANDER
HP: 22
Atk: 7
Def: 3
Ability: immune to fire damage, 30% chance to attack all nearby creatures with fire damage; nearby floor deals 3 fire damage on the following turn
Drops: Magma Shield
A hideously bloated creature distantly descended from an ordinary amphibian. It appears almost unable to move, and thinks of eating above all else. In addition to whatever living creatures it can cram inside its giant mouth, the salavamander also ingests small boulders. These are melted down inside its body to become fuel for its spitting magma attack. The magma takes time to cool once expelled and still presents a passive hazard for a few seconds. Though the salavamander could only possibly have come to be within a dungeon, it seems its creation may have been directed rather than random.
Kamau can stall the subject for a max of 2 turns. We need to move. Once Ricky gets the item, we are out of here. The guards will be stalled for a turn by the scorpion I’m sure. So that’s all we have time for. Kamau interposes for another turn and then hitails it out fast. Ricki gets item, then leaves. Everyone else should exit dungeon now.
The guards will most probably kill the scorpion on the turn they enter that room. This means they will just walk past that room like any other, we can’t assume we gained any time thanks to the scorpion. We just didn’t waste our time on killing it.
In comments in 39, TNIM posted:
Turn 37 is wardrobe room:
Turn 38 is mines below entrance
Turn 39 mines below Rusty
Turn 40 beetle room
Turn 41 scorpion room
Turn 42 where we are [salamander]
we’re mostly sure that’s correct.
Now it’s turn 40, so we can do something -now-, then on the next turn, then we’ve got a PITA.EDIT: at least one person pointed out that turn 40 has already happened, so in fact we only have turn 41 to do something, and anything we do on turn 42 we’ll be doing while the guards are entering this room. Sounds reasonable, considering dungeons started with turn 0 and our first actions’ results were shown on turn 1.
By the rules, when you fight, you cant leave the room on the same turn. Add that to the fact the dungeon condition says guards will stop to fight monsters, yeah they should be delayed for a single turn.
Ricki: Unlock Chest and loot it. Drop lockpicks if need be (if you still have them)
Kamau: Lead Sally away from the ladders to the right and Interpose
Lara & Mac: Hop down and help the kobold family get down and out the exit. Carry them over the lava if need be.
I dont think we can kill this thing if Ricki takes another turn unlocking the chest. As cool as a Magma Shield sounds, I say we loot the chest and get everyone out.
Plus benefits of a not-too-complicated action order for once lol
Amen to that!
I think, if we have a chance of getting the magma shield, we should go for it. We interpose a lot, and anything that might make that stronger is a good upgrade
I think this is all JUST possible. We want to loot that chest AND kill the salamander, while getting the kobolds to safety.. We can get Lara armored up sufficiently to tank the AOE damage and attack with the spider both turns. Our only really risk will be if the enemy uses it twice in a row, which only has a 9% chance of happening.
Lara:
Inventory: Take both of Macadamia’s rings of aggression and wear them. Give Macadamia the robe in exchange for his leather armor. Wield the heavy pick.
Movement: Descend the ladder and trade Kamau your leather armor, shield, spiked buckler, whip, and encyclopedia for his plate armor. If possible return to the left of the salamander.
Inventory: Wear the Plate armor. (7 defense with hearth)
Action: Attack the Salavamander with your heavy pick and dual rings of aggression (8 dmg) from its right side.
Spider:
Action: Attack the Salavamander (5-6 dmg) from the right side.
Ricki:
Action: Pick the remaining lock on the chest and loot it.
Inventory: Discard your lockpicks if necessary to hold the contents of the chest, then pick up any chest contents unlooted when lockpicking. (6 defense with hearth, can go up to 7/8 with buckler or shield).
Daisy:
Action: Follow Ricki and stay out of harm’s way.
Movement: Observe the fight with the lizard between Lara, her spider, and Kamau and guide the kobolds and Daisy down the burnt ladder, keeping them well out of harm’s way to the left of the lizard. Get the adult kobolds to help the children down the ladder, and offer any assistance you can as well. Next descend the ladder and park all the friendly non-ring-smif kobolds by the exit sign. If they’re willing to head out of the dungeon usher them forward.
Kamau:
Inventory: Make the trade with Lara, then wear the provided leather armor. Give Macadamia the ring of protection. (7 defense with hearth)
Action: Interpose!
Macadamia:
Inventory: Receive the robes from Lara and wear them along with your shield. Wear the ring of protection when Kamau gets it to you. (7 defense against fire).
Action: Use the pocket hearth
Movement: Follow Ricki’s guidance to get down by the exit sign. Prepare to engage next turn.
My suggested actions above this turn should yield 10 damage on the Salavamander (8+5-3 =10) this turn. This means that next turn we only need to hit it for 12 damage using Macadamia in addition to Lara and the Spider. We can make any inventory trades necessary at the top of the turn and then use Ricki’s action to grab the magma shield before running for the exit. That should complete the dungeon and automagically get everybody else out in a fighting retreat.
That would put us completing the fight on Turn 41 and exiting on Turn 42 with the guards nipping at our heels. That is also assuming that the Area attack does not go off. My main concern is still the Kobolds here. If we were to attempt your plan, I would have them move to the exit as soon as possible with the adults helping the children down. Get them out of range of Sally’s attack in case it goes off but get them closer to the exit.
You seem to have the knowledge of numbers. Do you have some time to try out finding how to deal 25atk-3def=22dmg in one turn for one-hit-killing Sally? I wrote a wall of text below, but in short: this would make things MUCH safer for the kobolds, and would give us one safe turn before the guards are on us — and we could loot that chest in that turn.
It is only possible to ensure that if rage potion can be taken at start of combat, as part of atk action
If we don’t get the kobolds down this turn, can they walk through the floor the next turn without taking damage?
Possible if they jump left from bottom of stairs but they likely do fo now regardless
The kobolds should stay as far away from Sally as possible while moving (I.e. jump from the ladder to the left), otherwise they might get caught in a 30% aoe strike
There’s no point to Kamau interposing if everyone in melee has 7 defense. Have him attack with the whip, if it whiffs then he deals just as much damage as if he wastes his turn defending no-one.
Actually, you’re spending the hearth here, so that’s an autohit plus Heroic Effort is in play. That’s another 5 damage assuming the whip’s special applies here.
We could likely get by without using the hearth, we can spend three more Remorse and eight of Kamau’s HP. Macadamia does need to take no more damage, but that’s already accounted for with the ring of protection + robes + heavy shield.
Mac does not have 7 defense. He has 7 defense VERSUS FIRE.
If we need to we can Bind it if it does use the AOE, making it a 30% of 1 corruption instead of a 9% of Serious Problems.
DO NOT USE THE POCKET HEARTH. THERE IS NO GAIN FOR IT. Ricki will be using the shield. We can sacrifice a few hit points. Give Lara the ring of protection so she doesn’t take damage this turn, then swap it to Mac and have Mac use the treasure shield instead of the normal one!
This would result in potentially 1 remorse next turn from Lara taking 1 damage. Kamau can afford 4 points, and we’re about to leave the dungeon. 1 point of remorse is 100% worth 12 gold.
Kamau received 4 damage, has 12 def, Sally has 7 atk. Does that mean the scorpion had 9 atk? Nah, I forgot the items. At scorpion’s place, Kamau didn’t have +2d from potion and +1d from ring, so it seems the scorpion had 6 atk.
Nope, all happens at the same time. Even if you needed to have defense at time of attack, Kamau was hit by the salavamander after adding the extra defense so full defense should apply (and he only has 4 turns of Potion of Shield left, so he had better have gained the 2 Def on the turn he drank it to get a full 5 turns worth). Looks like 9 attack on the scorpion, possibly from two 4-5 attacks with claws and stinger (3 + 1-2 poison would match the spider).
Other possibility: the floor added another 3 fire damage, if that happens every turn the salavamander is alive and not just after AoE attack turns. I don’t think this is the case though, there’s no mention of hot floor and it makes far more sense for the lingering fire damage to be from the vented lava.
LSN: please skip this post. No instructions here. Just random chatty thoughts on available options.
Analysis.
What actually does “Ability: immune to fire damage, 30% chance to attack all nearby creatures with fire damage; nearby floor deals 3 fire damage on the following turn” mean in context of interpose? Can Kamau really protect them if ti kicks in?
I seriously REALLY doubt that.
Interpose says: “can prevent enemies from targeting nearby allies”, and this ability does not “target”, it’s AoE, it affects all in range. If we execute your plan, we’re 30%-risking of getting the whole family killed. Or at least the kids and maybe Macadamia. Note that monster’s ability say: “attack all creatures” then “3dmg on following”, which means 7dmg(-def) when the ability triggers, and aftermath 3dmg(bypassing def) in the next turn if we still stand on that floor. That sucks.
We probably have this, and the next turn, before the Guards arrive
(EDIT: that may be not true, we may have just one free turn before they arrive, see Tem’s comment below).
Sally has low def, just 3. On previous turn, CTNC described a possibility of an attack of 24atk. If we can do 25 somehow (**), we can OHKO Sally on the next turn. This means Sally has 1x 30% chance of triggering her ability. Then we get a very relaxing turn of collecting things and moving out.
(EDIT: however, 25dmg will probably mean everyone attacks, so when Sally triggers, we have a lot of damage to soak, which may be a problem for Maca and Daisy)
If we try distracting Sally with Kamau (interpose or attack, whatever), and push the kobolds down to exit, Sally has 30% chance of burning both Kamau, and any kobolds that run past(*), and anyone helping them(*). This means lots of dead kobolds, maybe dead Macadamia, and most probably RemorseOverflow for Kamau. Plus flames on the floor for the next turn. But, in the other 70%, we’re lucky, Kamau tanks everything, kobolds and others are out.
(**) I am NOT sure if that’s even possible, if not, we have to take option2 and wish for good luck
EDIT:
(*) I’m still thinking HARD about that Sally’s AoE attack. In addition to the text of the ability, it’s also described as “spitting magma attack” in the flavor text. And also it’s said this monster “appears almost unable to move”, meaning, movement is somewhat hard for her. If Kamau’s distraction works as a real distraction, and if everyone attacking Sally will attack her from the right side like Kamau now, then Sally will most probably spit the magma in front of her, so – to the right side. I know the ability text suggests that the whole floor could be affected, but just by the layout and descriptions, it should be limited to right-side, meaning a safe pass for the kobolds even if Sally spits.
Of course dungeon doesn’t have to make sense. Ability text may be more important than description. Sally may spit forth and back and top and eveywhere like a fountain. I need to stop writing and take a break.
(however, if 25atk requires Daisy or Macadamia, we’d be 30%-risking of having them killed, as opposed to 30%-risking of having the kobolds killed.. in that case, I’d rather risk the kobolds, even if Kamau would have a hard time after that)
(damn.. if we run-past and risk 30% once, we still may end up in having Daisy and Mac killed if we don’t armour them up properly – which may be doable for Mac, but not for Daisy!)
“Then we get a very relaxing turn of collecting things and moving out.” In that turn we will have ceased to exist because the guards butchered us into nothingness.
Guards enter on turn 42. Now is turn 40. If we NOW deal 25atk to Sally somehow, we’ll one-hit-kill her, and we’ll have relaxing turn 41 for anything else.
Turn 40 already happened. Our proposed actions will be executed in turn 41.
I edited my comment(s) here to add that viewpoint. I’m out of brainpower to analyze that and still hope you’re wrong, but what you say sounds reasonable.
The biggest ambiguity is “nearby”. That definitely implies that ranged attacks from across the room would be safe, and it definitely looks like the area of melee is on the right side of the room.
Don’t worry about the 3 damage bypassing defense when the floor is lava. Damage bypassing defense has always been labeled as unblockable damage. Remember that ranged attacks are phrased as damage and not as Atk values, and armour works against ranged attacks.
Macademia: Acquire robes, gold shield, ring of protection, and whip. Attack Salavamander with whip.
Lara: Acquire plate armor. Acquire both rings of aggression. Attack Salavamander with heavy pick.
Spider: Help attack Salavamander
Kamau: Interpose. Bear agony stoically.
Ricki: Open chest. Ditch picks if needed to carry what’s inside. Stay high.
Daisy: Stay with Ricki.
Other items traded as necessary to keep them carried in inventory.
Using the gold shield to make sure Macademia’s safe is cheaper than using the hearth. It only break if the salavamander uses AOE *and* the break chance procs. This puts Maca to 7 def against fire, Lara to 6, and Kamau doesn’t care if he takes a couple damage at this point.
Note: Maca will have to drop all other items to get all that.
I don’t consider this to be a problem. Other characters can take those. But all these plans are very similar, so w/e
Edit: I forgot that the room is apparently dark so Kamau has a 50% chance to miss. Probably better to go with a plan with Kamau Interposing and Maca with the Fire Robe, Ring of Protection, and the Gold Shield attacking with Lara.
Actions:
Ricki: Pick and loot the Chest. Drop the Theives’ Tools if you still have them and need to make room for the loot.
Maca: Give Lara the Leather Armor and both Rings of Aggression and take her Greatsword. Sneak to the exit the family with the rest of the Kobolds while the Salavamander is looking the other way and floor isn’t on fire.
Lara: Give Maca the Greatsword and take his Leather Armor and Rings of Aggression then jump down. Give Kamau the Leather Armor, 1 Ring of Aggression, Whip, Spiked Buckler, Potion of Rage, and Purse. Equip the Plate Armor and Ring of Protection he gives you, equip the Ring of Aggression Maca gave you that you didn’t give to Kamau, and attack the Salavamander from the front with the Heavy Pick.
Kamau: Give Lara the Plate Armor and take everything she gives you. Equip the Leather Armor, Ring of Aggression, and Whip and attack.
Spider: Eat the Salavamander’s face and drink its precious life juices! >:D
Daisy: See if any of the kids will pet you before they jump.
Explanation:
The equipment gives Lara 7 Defense so Kamau doesn’t need to Interpose and Kamau will still have 4 Defense. With his 9 HP, it’s enough to endure. If there’s a Fire Attack, the Dauntless Ability will let him live. If the Salavamander uses the Fire Attack twice, Lara only takes 3 Damage, and Kamau goes upto 4 Remorse. The important thing is it’s not 5.
The rest of the inventory shuffling is just to make room for stuff Lara is getting.
7 Damage from Lara, 6 from Kamau, and 5 from the Spider adds up to 18 minimum, or 15 after subtracting the Salavamander’s 3 Defense. Enough to kill in 2 turns, even if we only deal 13 damage the second turn if the Spider dies.
I have retooled Meta’s plan to avoid wasting the Hearth for no actual benefit. ALSO removed the conditionals in favor of definite actions that, if performed in the order listed, accomplish the same thing as the conditionals, as LSN is very much not fond of conditionals.
Lara:
Inventory: Take Macadamia’s rings of aggression and wear them. Give Macadamia the robe in exchange for his leather armor. Wield the heavy pick.
Movement: Descend the ladder and immediately drop the shield, then trade Kamau your leather armor, spiked buckler, whip, and encyclopedia for his plate armor.
Inventory: Wear the Plate armor. (6 def)
Action: Attack the Salavamander with your heavy pick and ring of aggression (7 dmg) from its right side.
Spider:
Action: Attack the Salavamander (5-6 dmg) from the right side.
Ricki:
Action: Pick the remaining lock on the chest and loot it.
Inventory: Discard your lockpicks, then pick up any chest contents, then pick up lockpicks. Descend and drop lockpicks, and pick up shield and wear it. (7 def with shield).
Daisy:
Action: Follow Ricki and stay out of harm’s way.
Movement: Observe the fight with the lizard between Lara, her spider, and Kamau and guide the kobolds and Daisy down the burnt ladder, keeping them well out of harm’s way to the left of the lizard. Get the adult kobolds to help the children down the ladder, and offer any assistance you can as well. Next descend the ladder and park all the friendly non-ring-smif kobolds by the exit sign. If they’re willing to head out of the dungeon usher them forward.
Kamau:
Inventory: Make the trade with Lara, then wear the provided leather armor. Give Macadamia the ring of protection, oxidicer and treasure shield in exchange for shield, hearth, rat tail dagger and rat tail.(6 defense) Return to right side of salavmander.
Action: Interpose!
Macadamia:
Inventory: Receive the robes from Lara, trade shield, hearth, rat tail dagger and rat tail to Kamau for treasure shield and Oxidicer. Wear the ring of protection and treasure shield when Kamau gets it to you. (7 defense against fire) Stay away from Salavmander.
I’m not sure the math for next turn works this way, as Lara is only using one ring. This means hp damage to Sally is only a guaranteed 9. We would need 16 damage next turn then. How do we guarantee that?
By adding in Ricki and Mac? I ran the math on my discord posts and it said that they should dish out 17 even if Lara has to bind, and by golly i’m not doing that math again.
Adding in Ricki and Mac would kill us because we need to loot and run next turn.
we can’t add Ricki, I think.
She needs to leave the dungeon (guards arrive & may attack right away so kamau relies on dauntless) and I assume that follows normal combat/leaving room rules. Wouldn’t risk being stuck here.
I would let mac attack already now (with whip, see my other comment), which should give us enough dmg over the 2 turns
You forgot that Maca has 2 Rings of Aggression. Giving them both to Lara lets her deal 8 Damage.
(Upvoted assuming LSN makes Maca give both Rings.)
Edited that, actually.
Why not attack with macadamia right away? you’re wasting an action here.
He’s safe as long as kamau is interposing & can deal an extra 3 damage with the whip (which is better here than oxidizer)
This should also solve the issue of dealing enough damage until next turn.
“Hideously boated” nah that’s adorable