Dungeon 4 Turn 2
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Ricki crawls back up the rat tunnel (which doesn’t lead anywhere else), getting hit by the three rats on the way but taking no damage. She, Lara, and Kamau then all maneuver to the left side of the rat pile while Kamau interposes and Lara takes out the other single rat. Kamau takes 2 more damage from this. Ricki continues into the next room.
Ricki finds another room full of chests, rats, and tunnels that only she can navigate. Further progress forward appears to be blocked by yet another grate.
Make that red rat (mouse?) your pet
Heck no! Don’t go near that thing!
The chest it’s on looks like it has a rat tail sticking out. It might be full of rats as a trap
My bet is it’s just a fake out. The skeletons make it scary, when really it would be an amazing pet! Just my take
I totally think it’s full of rats. Trap Detection II probably revealed it, and stalkroach would probably look something like this as well.
It kind of reminds me of the bucket o’ rats in the tavern dungeon…
Link: https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-2-turn-23/
Wow, nice one. I totally forgot about that, and yes, that’s pretty much that!
That’s a special condition chest. My guess, judging by the color, we’ll either need to kill all rats (practically impossible) or just the rat piles.Nevermind. didn’t notice its red tinge. It’s probably linked to the scary red rat.
My guess is it opens if we kill the red rat. Which probably requires going back through the previous room on the bottom level, through the dam, and through that last rat hole. If we want to do it, it’s probably something we have to commit to now.
killing it seems to easy.
Unless we get a freebie after failing all previous chests.
I do agree that red rat is related to red chests, just not sure if murder is the way.
I disagree, killing the red rat is not “too easy”. Seeing how it is on the lowest floor, and we’d have to get it done by turn 5 of the dungeon, that’s really quite the harsh pre-requisite, especially if you consider the 3 beavers + their dam that are in the way. (Luckily for us, we got the sun sphere, that might remove all of those obstacles in one swift turn. I hope.)
Also, we have no idea what kind of stats this red rat has. My guess (with the red eyes and the red fur) that it could be demonic or something. Maybe it will even only reveal it’s true size/appearance after getting attacked.
And if we can’t kill it in one turn (#4) because of its stats (and Rickis stats in comparison), we could even risk Ricki DYING, because the lowest level will be flooded in turn 5. (Whether or not we can finish off the red rat depends on whether or not characters can dive and/or fight underwater and also if they will take damage per turn while underwater, or if they will just instantly drown. It will also make a difference if the level is flooded at the beginning of turn 5 or at the end. With a double move in turn 5, Ricki could make it back to the red chest, but only if the flooding happens at the end of turn 5 and/or if being underwater doesn’t instantly kill a character.)
In any case we probably shouldn’t waste any time on trying to loot the chest the red rat is sitting on, IMHO.
Ricki: Run back and attack the rat pile
Kamau: Go left and bomb the rat squad
Lara: After Kamau, climb down one level and stop by the red chest
This one is to have Ricki clear the rat pile while Lara blasts the small rats through the grate and Kamau interposes. We’d use the sphere on the dire/venom rat combo, but the rat pile (presumably) can’t go through the bars because the tails are tied up, so Lara can safely sting until the rat pile is the only one left. Then, Ricki flips the lever and lets Kamau and Lara go in, open the chests, and drag the locked one out.
I’d rather leave the rat pile alone, since it’s behind us now and isn’t guarding any treasure as far as we can tell. Given that it hits for 5 damage (judging by how much Kamau took), I’m guessing it consists of 5 rats and so would take 5 hits to kill. We don’t have time for that.
If it works like that, then each 1dmg taken by the rat pile will kill 1 rat and make it deal 1 dmg less. Of course it’s DM’s decision, and dungeon monsters does not have to make any sense. I think we should test it out on the nearest chance. It would be a game changer.
The easiest way to test it out is to damage a rat pile by at least 1 dmg, safely somehow, then disengage and attack them with Kamau. We know they deal 5dmg. We’ll see how much Kamau gets hit.
I do not say we do that right now. Just observe it next time we pass by a rat pile. For example if/when Kamau drags a locked chest from the room to the right?
Kamau: Go left and attack the dire rat
Lara: Go left and attack a small rat
Ricki: Attack a small rat
This one is to save the sphere, clear out these guys normally, then use Web Wall to access the lever and the room to the left. Someone can flip the lever later, then we can see if it flips the door to that treasure room.
How about shouting to Paws to drop us another piece of rope? xD
We can also just jump down and take the fall damage plus beavers. The lever will probably close off the way back anyway (moving the grate down a level), we go forward or nothing.
Kamau: Go left and bomb the rat squad
Ricki: Go through the hole next to the red chest
Lara: Go left and try to Sting a beaver from above
This one prioritizes speed, clearing out these guys with the sun sphere, then having Ricki get to the third room on Turn 3. Lara doesn’t have anything super productive to do, so she’s just gonna test the beaver’s stats
I like mentioning the SPEED. We need speed. We actually can worry the least about the 3 chests at the level2 in right room, since they are ON THE TOP of the dungeon. To get the most of this quest, we need to scan the area, grab whatever we can from the bottom floor, and then think about what’s left elsewhere.
Nice one re shooting beavers from above. We’ll learn how much DEF they have.
We need to worry about the three chests a bit, actually. Opening the passage to those chests requires going down to the third floor. And then we have to hit that lever a third time to let us GTFO after we’ve killed all the enemies we’re going to and looted the chests. They’re effectively second-from-bottom and relatively high time investment. OTOH, three chests.
No, it does not. It only requires that Ricky is for some time stuck in the first room, at first lever, and Lara and Kamau do the chest shuffling, then Ricky comes out and opens the last chest.
Redrat hustle.
Kamau: Go left, interpose, end on the second level (counting from the top) (edit: by the red chest).
Lara: Go left, take Ricki’s longsword, kill the dire rat (edit2: with said longsword), end by Kamau.
Ricki: Snag the sun sphere from Kamau in exchange for her lockpicks (and the sword which Lara gets). Go all the way down, to the right, and hit the beavers and dam with the sun sphere.
Why: The red chest probably opens if we kill the red rat. Which is only accessible via rathole. Which by assumptions of ratholes lining up, is the one in the last room behind the dam. And we have very little time to do this before the levels start flooding.
Next turn would be Lara and Kamau looting the chest in the first room by the green rats while Ricki recovers her longsword and goes after the red rat. That leaves turn 5 for everyone to bail out of the bottom floor if the red rat dies in one hit.
Note: This is not the absolute safest of plans. It is also the only one I see that has a chance of getting the red chest open. And we can only do it now.
There is speculation that the chest the red rat is on contains another pile of rats that might pop out in the fight. This is a lot of risk for a single chest when we really need just normal loot now that we have 3 party members
I think this speculation is correct. I also think that the red rat is not super-powerful, and that we’ll have a chance to bail if this doesn’t go well.
I’ll admit that I’m leaning on meta-analysis, and assuming the dungeon was designed for it to be possible to open the red chest if we make/made the right decisions. But given that assumption, about the only way Ricki could have more personal power is if she took ambush as an ability last level. She’s well equipped for personal combat, and I kinda want to use that.
We could also give Ricky the cigarettes to boost her Atk. It may shorten the combat a lot.
… unless Ricky starts coughing and loses a turn.
I like it. Adding the cigarettes if we do have Ricki go after the red rat sounds like a good idea. We really don’t want to spend any more time down there than we absolutely have to.
We’d have a problem with inventory space, though. sphere takes up 3 slots, leather armour and sshield 1 each, so that’s eating up the 5 slots that Ricki has, no more room for Lara’s cigarettes. And going back to grab the cigarettes after using up the sphere will slow us down by at least one turn, unless we have Lara follow Ricki after she bowled.
EDIT:
… actually, that would probably be for the best, have Lara try to sting one of the beavers this turn and move left (lowest level) to meet with Ricki and pass the sword and the cigarettes to her. Then Ricki can go through the tunnel and (possibly) attack the red rat in turn 5 and make her way back in turn 5. (I’m hoping that the water will fill up the lowest level only at the end of turn 5.)
The skeletons might also be there, because the people drowned there (and the rats would gnaw the flesh from their bones, once they are dead), and not have anything to do with the red rat after all.
I’m not sure if we should have Ricki open the clearly rat infested chest underneath, after (hopefully) defeating the red rat, though. The reward from the “?” chest could be “enough”, to make it worth this risk.
I’m assuming we can have Lara move, Ricki take her stuff, Ricki move, then finally combat resolve. If this is not a thing we can do, we’ll find out when Ricki fails to grab the sun sphere from Kamau and use it this turn. It does mean that Lara is going to have a turn of limited use, since she doesn’t have the Def to do much on her own. But she’s following Kamau around to provide light for him anyway.
I’m fairly sure that swapping equipment (before a fight) and using it in the same turn works. At the very least we did some armour-swapping in mid-combat (in dungeon 3 I think) and that was successfully working the way we had intended back then (I don’t have a link for that, sorry).
In the upper post of mine that you replied to, I didn’t take into account that Lara could be following Ricki, passing on stuff to her (sword and cigarettes), and Ricki then still being able to move and attack, but instead I was thinking (initially) about Ricki moving back and forth between the rooms (to meet Lara where she is atm), which of course would have cost us a turn and make the red rat hustle impossible to work out.
So now that my brains have caught up, I’m keeping my fingers crossed the red rat hustle will a) win most votes and b) work the way we think it will work, because I -really- want to see it in action (the “bowling” of 3 beavers and their dam alone will be spectacular, I’m assuming) and also I -really- want to finally be able to get the contents of one of these special chests.
We are usually quite good figuring out what has to be done in order to open them, but we usually can’t really do it (lack of suitable equipment and/or time).
Also, I’m kind of hoping it will have at least 1, maybe even 2 “treasure” items in it, which should make achieving the dungeon goal (and raking in some direly needed skill points) that much easier.
Speaking of skill points: I did notice a “I” next to Lara’s “Venomous Sting” skill, which means there will be at least one more tier to it, and that means likely an increase in damage (or possibly she can cast it on more than one target in the same turn, making her extremely valuable to bring down groups of enemies in combination with Kamau to keep her safe with interpose. Especially if that ranged poison damage can’t be blocked – I still haven’t fully figured out how the whole ranged attack mechanism works in relation to enemy defense).
With this plan we would have access to 3 high value chests (assuming based on their difficulty to reach) Which would possibly allow us to finish the dungeon.
Slightly different red rat hustle:
Kamau: Go left, interpose, end on the second level, next to the red chest.
Lara: Go left, take Ricki’s longsword, shoot one of the beavers in the lowest level with your sting spell, end by Kamau.
Ricki: Snag the sun sphere from Kamau in exchange for her lockpicks (and the sword which Lara gets). Go all the way down, to the right, and hit the beavers and dam with the sun sphere.
I’d rather have Lara try to shoot one of the beavers (instead of attacking the top floor dire rat) because they can’t fight back if she attacks with ranged combat (I’m assuming they don’t have a ranged combat option and can’t “fly” or otherwise move up that sheer wall). Also iirc, dire rats have 3 HP (at least it says so in the https://gist.github.com/KingMarth/2c55735080b5b7a39b1514154a2cb177 ) so Lara wouldn’t be able to kill it in one turn anyway. In addition I’m assuming that the beavers will be able to swim and just “float up” one (or more) floor(s), once the lower one(s) they have been on previously floods. Dunno about what will happen to the rats (rats can also swim quite well, but they might still prefer to leave, instead of sticking around, whereas beavers are dwelling in lakes/rivers etc. and do quite a lot of diving, so they might remain and pose a problem to the end of the dungeon, still).
Next turn (#4): have Lara follow Ricki and pass the sword and the cigarettes to her, then go back left.
Assuming the beavers and the dam got blasted to bits, Ricki go through the rat tunnel (near the 2 green dire rats, but don’t engage them), use the ciagrettes and kill the red rat (assuming you pop out in that room/area).
Kamau: go attack one of the beavers near the unlocked chest in the level below the red chest, I guess?
Then Ricki can hopefully make her way BACK to the 3rd level (counted from the top) in turn 5, before the lowest level floods and we can’t do this anymore.
By the way, I just remembered: if we split up Lara and Kamau, Kamau will suffer the penalty of not being able to see in the dark (iirc. 50% miss chance in combat), so if we want him to e.g. attack one of the beavers in turn 4, and that happens before Lara is back (or we send Lara to do something else than return), he might not be successful in hurting his target, even if his attack is high enough to penetrate their defense.
Assuming KingMarth’s document is correct, Lara can kill a dire rat in one blow of the longsword. (2 Atk + 2 longsword – 1 def = 3 HP) Which is as safe as a venomous sting because Kamau is interposing. I’ll edit in a minor clarification.
I want fewer enemies left between us and the exit should everything go to hell and we end up running for our lives. I consider it a higher priority than sniping a beaver.
https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-1-turn-35/
Kamau has previously one-shot dire rats with just his hilt. I don’t have a citation for def vs HP, but 4 damage is enough.
Wait, are you adding the 2 innate attack value that Lara has to the 2 ranged poison damage that her sting spell does?I’m fairly sure it doesn’t work that way. Ranged attack damage doesn’t stack with the innate/melee attack value.from the “how to play” page:
So Lara would do 3 damage (minus defense) if she attacked in melee with the torch (2 innate attack plus 1 from the torch), or 2 (poison) damage if she used the spell (ranged attack). That’s enough to kill off a normal rat (1 HP, 0 Def), but not a dire rat (3 HP, 1 Def).And of course Kamau (innate attack 3+1 from the hilt) is able to one-shot a dire rat, like he did in dungeon 1, turn 35, any day of the week.
EDIT: never mind, you wanted Lara to attack the dire rat with the SWORD. Yes, that would be enough to have her one-shot a dire rat, no argument there.
Oooh, actually, a possibly even better idea for turn #4:
Kamau goes after Ricki to pass the cigarettes (from Lara) and the sword (from either Lara or Kamau) to her, then goes back to the red chest.
Lara goes right (on level of the red chest) and sting-kills one of the normal rats (here’s hoping a spell can pass, but a rat – and especially a pile of rats – can’t-.
(Ricki’s actions would be the same as suggested above for turn 4.)
This way we could have Lara whittle down the amount of rats (= the attack value in that room) a bit, so the looting of the chests behind them will be less dangerous/faster, once Ricki is at the lever again.
Warning: This course of action contains the risk of Lara getting hurt quite a bit (2-3 HP, I think, depending on whether or not the rat getting hit by the spell still gets to react before it dies), if the 4 small rats can fit through the gate (more if the pile goes through, too) and therefore get remorse on Kamau.
EDIT: corrected my HP projection. For some reason I thought Lara had 2 Def. Alas, that was not innate, but only while wearing the leather armour. She does have 2 innate attack, though, maybe I mixed it up with that.
Sniping rats through the grate is the way to go if we end up trying for those three chests. But on turn 4 I think we want to have Kamau loot the chest by the plague rats behind the dam. And Lara should probably not be risking damage the same turn we send Ricki in to the red rat. We’d be risking maxing Kamau’s remorse right there.
heh, good point. I somehow immediately “gave up” on the chest next to the two green dire rats, because I don’t see a way that Ricki could kill them off in time, but it didn’t occur to me that THIS area is reach-able by Lara and Kamau as well. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. 🙂
Kamau: go to the left room and interpose the rats on the top floor.
Lara: kill the grey rat with wenomous stingbso Kamau doesnt take any more damage next turn.
Ricki: take the sun sphere from Kamau, giving him the sword and the lockpicks in return. Then go down to the bottom floor and nuke the red rat with the sphere.
Thoughts:
The lever in the second room should probably be accessible after the water raises ine level. Somebody can jump down in the water, then.
The chest the red rat is sitting on might be full of stalkroach
Lara could safely snipe the beavers on the bottom left
She can’t just nuke the red rat. There’s no path to there. Three beavers and a dam block it.
Ooh, that’s smart! Nice one. This may be very helpful. We need a person who can swim and knows how to dive just a little, and it should work.
The lever down there may be for the grate.. and/or maybe both levers are for both grates at the same time. Too bad Ricky’s not at the previous lever, we could quickly check if it has effect on the grate here.
Also, that bottom lever seems pretty inaccessible (unless there’s a way behind that grate here). And/or unless someone wants to risk a jump down there. Maybe we could shout out to Paws if he can lend us & drop down the hole one more rope? 😐
The RedRat has the same color as the [?] chest. I suppose we have to defeat it (or, I dont know, tame with cheese?) to open that chest.
Also, as someone pointed out, the chest RedRat is sitting on looks like trapped. I bet it’s full of mice. I just hope the RedRat is not capable of jumping off and opening the chest, releasing an army upon us.
This RedRat somehow remind me of that pretty rabbit from the holy grail movie 😉
Are these things going to chase us? Why not just walk/run past them, and fight at objective points? We don’t have much time…
We should absolutely ignore them and just go past… Except Lara has no armor. If she gets focus attacked as we go by, it’s instant remorse for Kamau and things get really dangerous. We’d probably have to start blowing corruption just to get Lara out safely.