Dungeon 13 Turn 4
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After helping Amadeusz safely cross the nearby trap, Ricki ignores the nearby wisp and unlocks the chest it guards, throwing away her thieves’ tools in the process. She finds… a pair of oven mitts. Seriously? Well, at least they’re better than the last set. And combined with her shield, she’s now extremely resistant to fire.
Lara moves to the lowest level of this room and uses her lens on the creature she finds. It notices her immediately, but she manages to narrowly avoid taking damage from its attack as she rushes past.
Amadeusz and Cordy climb up the ladder.
The two most dubiously aligned party members rush the trio of magicrows. The birds unleash a devastating salvo of spells! Amadeusz, Cordy, and the mushrooms both get hit by area holy and lightning damage, while Amadeusz gets singled out by a powerful venomous barrage! Cordy manages to avoid any damage, and Amaduesz and the mushroom each take 4. The medium mushroom manages to hold on due to the boost it got from eating pet food, while the little mush explodes. The battles in this dungeon sure are flashy!
The blue-eyed bird manages to dodge the attacks thrown at it, but all three perish in the mushroom’s poison explosion. A new little mushroom sprouts, which can again be kept by Cordy or sent to someone else.
Familiar with the magicrows, Amaduesz digs the magic stones out of their brains and tucks them all away until he needs them.
Lara descends the lowest ladder in the entrance room and finds herself in a new hallway. Nothing much to see here.
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CROWSTONE, BEAM OF LIGHT
Consumable
Deals 3 holy damage in a straight line. Provides light.
Weight 1, Cost 10
CROWSTONE, STATIC BOLT
Consumable
Deals 2 lightning damage in an area at range.
Weight 1, Cost 9
CROWSTONE, VENOMOUS BARRAGE
Consumable
Deals 8 poison damage at range.
Weight 1, Cost 11
OVEN MITTS, HEAVY DUTY
Accessory
Def +4 against fire damage.
Weight 1, Cost 9
SOLAR GUARDIAN
HP: 18
Atk: 7, or 7 holy damage at range.
Def: 4
Ability: Def +5 against holy damage, provides light
Drops: 50% Solar Armour
A powerful servant of the old God of the Sun. They guard holy sites and attack trespassers, and tend to focus those who wear stolen solar armour or who carry other relics they shouldn’t have. They aren’t particularly intelligent, but they are known to cooperate when they gather. Oddly, they seem to have no particular allegiance to the Emperor, the new God of the Sun.
Lots of good info. I think we should focus on upper floors for now. Those guards look mean!
A consumable that can be used once per dungeon?
On one hand, it sounds clear. On the other hand.. Does that mean that this magicrow can only use it once-per-dungeon and then just sits midair and does nothing? Let’s say we had several such stones, then, as a team, could use it only once, even though it’s consumable? Or maybe it means that each team-member can use it only once, and we can use up to 4 per dungeon?
I suspect that text was copied over from Lara’s ability in error. I think it is just a one shot then done.
Sorry, that’s a copy and paste error from the text of the wand. It’s fixed now.
we’ve beaten guards before.
and there normal, low level (except for the enforcer) and defenseless. not even a pigeon to get help. it does make it seem like a trap though.
Those 4 Guards wearing Imperial Leather Armor might have their weapons sheathed rather than in their hands. I know that hasn’t really happened before, but the author does like to surprise us. I’d recommend trying Case before just assuming they are all unarmed based on how they appear on screen. Those 4 Guards and the Elite Justicar/Enforcer watching over them might be as ‘unarmed’ as Lara is right now, just look at her there on screen, smiling innocently, not a Venomous Siegesword in sight.
— I may have been wrong about using Case on the Solar Guardian, but we probably should Case the Justicar/Enforcer and at least one of the 4 Guards in that room to see what weapons they have that are not currently equipped, I think this may be the first time we’ve seen Guards that are apparently unarmed from their visual appearance since Dungeon 1 but it seems likely they just don’t have their weapons drawn. I suspect if somebody fell though that trapdoor they’d suddenly all be armed in the next Turn’s picture. Hopefully it is just the typical Longswords and not Greatswords or Great Axes.
What do you call a group of Magicrows?
A Bhaal 🙂
A warflock? (Pun on warlock)
Magic murder
A magicide?
A manacide??
(a closer Pun to ‘homicide’ than magicide, both of which are references to the trivia fact that a real-world group of crows is called a “murder”, like Claudious apparently knew)
“Fast Food!” –Wolf (were-Amadeusz)
1/ I really wonder what’s this red pipe is for. Reminds me of SuperMario’s green pipes, and the nearby “wanted” note almost looks like “dump yer goblins here”. We definitely need to read that note first!
2/ Also.. I just noticed it – take a look at the entrance and the hallway to the right and the boilerroom. It’s all one huge two-level tall hallway. Also, entrance is two-levels tall. Also, the boiler is two-levels tall. Coincidence? 🙂 For me, it looks like it’s 3 rooms designed for something HUGE to move between them, i.e. for something huge to enter the dungeon and start pacifying everything along the main hallway.
I have no idea what you might be referring to… they must have needed to make the main hallway that tall to get the boiler in there.
https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-11-turn-2/
IMPERIAL GOLEM, MINIATURE
HP: 20
Atk: 8, or 7 holy damage at range
Def: 10
Ability: melee attack hits an area, deals 1 unblockable damage if all damage would otherwise be resisted, immune to holy and poison damage, +5 damage from lightning, +5 Def against fire and ice
Drops: Golem Core
A semi-autonomous golem made to augment the forces of the Imperial Guard. The miniature models lack the raw power of the full-size ones, but are able to operate in smaller spaces such as dungeons. However, they have no intelligence to speak of and will mindlessly attack the closest target they identify as a threat or trespasser unless a handler is nearby to give orders.
Nope, we probably won’t be seeing one of those on Turn 21…
More seriously. Note that the Guard patrols need to be able to survive in order to collect the output of the facility so the random wisps that appear every 10 Turns cannot be so lethal that they’d kill one or more members of each patrol, that implies that the Guard patrols either have some sort of specialized offense against the wisps (such as a Miniature Imperial Golem and maybe a Guard Elite), or they have some sort of specialized defense against the wisps (that we could possibly get our hands on by defeating them), or the Guards know the wisp’s stats and targeting strategy well enough to be able to tank or defeat the wisps with minimal risk/damage to the patrol (which implies that if we secretly watch them with Dungeon Eyes from the upper floors on Turns 21-24 we might learn something).
If it gets down to that,we can probably make the wisps focus on the guards as we run past them with the tons of DEF we have (excluding Cordy).
Ugh,why does my Samsung love to crash so often?
Anyways:
C & A: smash those 2 skeletons
L & R: kill the Solar Guardian
LSN: please be merciful.
Remember to look carefully for traps… in the new room we just got to see… the one that Lara is currently in… halfway between where Lara is standing and the ladder that goes down to that Guard Justicar/Enforcer on a platform (the one with no eye holes in their helmet)… on the floor… look CAREFULLY at the floor…
…then go warn everybody if you see a trap.
A breakfloor trap. If you fall in you will not have the turn to attack the five guards there. A sneak attack from behind would be better.
The guard is looking away from the ladder so it should be easy, the trap is the only problem.
But they should know about the trap ahead first, so they don’t trip it.
there happen to be 2 traps on the floor below the skeletons
*GASP* A MCDONALDS PLAY PLACE! RICKI! GO DOWN THE RED SLIDE
who is the guard with no eyeholes in the helmet? we should ask kamau when we get back home.
Enforcer,most likely.
See Kat’s Comment and my long reply below. Based on carefully looking at the Enemies page we think it is an Elite or Enforcer version of a Justicar. We encountered a Justicar once back on D5T28 https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-5-turn-28/
I just realised.How the fcck does it SEE!?His helmet doesn’t have any slits!
If the group comes together in this room they could probably beat the guards and check in the red pipe. It might lead to somewhere good.
sorry mario, the princess is in another castle
Quick guide to colors:
Red/orange: fire
Blue: ice
Teal: lightning
Yellow: holy
Purple: poison
Green: ? Healing/plant? Unconfirmed
Black: death touch
Conclusion: that owlbear is probably a death touch owlbear that does unblockable damage. Be warned!
Lots of undead in Dungeon Eyes have a green glow, particularly their eyes, so I’ve typically associated Green with necromancy in this world.
only skeletons, zombies (not human zombies, they are gray) and ghasts have any green on them
the wand of mending, healing potions and other HP recovery items are green.
In some worlds/game systems, including AD&D, healing is considered Necromancy.
In the wrap-up stream, green Wisps/magic is referred to as Life, just to clarify.
the necromancer (dungeon 9) had no green.
Are you SURE about that? Did you go look?
See D9T17 & D9T20: https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-9-turn-20/
as well as D9T50. The Necromancer seems to have green eyes and Necromancy looks pretty green to me.
Although on D9T54 the Necromancer’s eyes go red and the magic there looks more red & black themed.
black might not mean death touch. Reinforced skeletons are black, and no death touch with them.
although black with red eyes might mean something with death-related effects. why not find out with a lens?
(Riki has two and dungeon eyes so can probably see the owlbear.)
Ricki started the dungeon with 2 Magic Lenses. She used one on a wisp on Turn 2. She only has one Magic Lens remaining. Her current inventory can be seen at: https://dungeoneyes.com/current-party/ See, only one Magic Lens. Currently we only have one Magic Lens in our group and Ricki has it.
I’d personally prefer to use the Magic Lens on that Guard Justicar/Enforcer boss-person in the room Lara is in (the lower left room). I think we will be encountering Enforcers (and whatever that blank-visored boss is) more in the future and I’d like to see their stats and the descriptive write-up that we get when we use a Lens on something.
Even though the party currently only has one Magic Lens remaining (cost: 10gc), it might be a good idea to use a Magic Lens on that dark grey Owlbear before attempting to free or fight it, as well as using Ricki’s Case ability on that chest it is guarding to see if using the Magic Lens or the fight is even worth the effort, the Chest may only contain Moldy Cheese or something similar.
Speculation: It is possible that there will be a lever somewhere to release the dark Owlbear or that one or both of the two trap triggers above the sealed room the Owlbear is in are what open the metal door or maybe drop you into its room. The Note(s) by where it is sealed will probably tell us more. However, I don’t think there’s going to be a lever to release the dark Owlbear I think it is a dangerous failed experiment that they intentionally sealed away and only fools with a bomb would mess with, I think it is shumck-bait for people who did the Guard Outpost first and saved a bomb or two and I give it a 50% chance that the Chest by darth Owlbear contains something like Moldy Cheese, however if people really really want to mess with that room then Ricki could use Case on that chest to confirm that it is worth the effort and we’ll probably do it if there a Wand of Infinite Fireballs or something like that. I think the bomb will have much better uses, but hey, I’m wrong at least half the time when I start speculating.
Thank you very much for posting this summary of the colors. Note that the Elemental Wisp has been added to the Enemies page and the picture shows 7 colors, which are unsurprisingly the same 7 that you list. I consider that Magic Lens very well expended!
I agree with your conclusion about Darth Owlbear likely being some sort of horrible elemental-infused death touch owlbear monstrosity. IMHO, the best case might be the same stats as a normal owlbear but each of its 2 attacks doing at least one point of unblockable death touch damage if they wouldn’t otherwise do any damage (similar to the Miniature Imperial Golem’s attacks). Worst case might be as bad as double the normal owlbear’s stats and ALL damage is unblockable death touch damage.
Since the owlbear is situated in a location where the party doesn’t NEED to mess with it, and there is a VERY visible warning of a LOT of skeletons there (which dungeons usually use to indicate a dangerous creature is nearby, “look at the bones!”), I do consider it possible that the dungeon designer may have quite literally made it a deathtrap to any who are foolish enough to not read all the Notes and use Case and a Magic Lens BEFORE attempting to free the blackened Owlbear.
OWLBEAR (normal)
HP: 15
Atk: 3
Def: 2
Ability: Can attack twice, +1 Atk when at 5 HP or less
Drops: 20% random Owlbear item
A creature that could only have emerged from a dungeon. The owlbear is notoriously aggressive and violent, and becomes even more so when injured. It can quickly tear apart individual targets, but when surrounded prefers to spread its attacks out. Despite its ferocity, there are many known instances of an owlbear being raised from an egg and tamed. An owlbear near other types of creatures has likely been tamed, but one by itself or with only other owlbears will almost always be murderous beyond all reason.
Plan 1: Go up.
Idea here is to stay in the upper levels until Patrol comes and goes. Will probably use a lockpick on door to get to other area. Will deal with Death Owlbear as well.
Lara: read the note next to you. Move up. Move right and end turn in middle of the room out of reach of wisp and Solar.
Ricki: Avoid the trap. Move up. Point out the 2 pressure plates to the group and avoid them. Read the note closest to the owlbear.
Cordy: Avoid trap. Read note 1
Amad: Avoid Trap. Read note 2. run past skeletons and scout room Right.
Next turn, Lara can finish off wisp or roof walk to rejoin group. We can deal with skellies, plant bomb on door or do something in new room.
Could Lara looting that chest alert the Turn 20 patrol, or somehow alert the Justicar/Enforcer boss-person in that room? It may be safer for Lara to read the note near her.
Good point. Will edit
If the enforcer can’t already detect lara it can’t detect her opening a chest or reading a note. both are safe.
The open chest may alert the patrol when it comes by
(heavy sigh) Just because something hasn’t happened before doesn’t mean that it won’t happen now. The author seems to like surprises and this room looks like it might just possibly be an intentional trap for someone who is on a Wanted Poster in every room of this dungeon. Maybe that Guard Enforcer that apparently has no eyeholes in their helmet is blind and has an excellent sense of hearing. Maybe the chest has some type of trap that will make noise (although I don’t see anything different about its graphic that would indicated that it has a trap). Maybe the Solar Guardian that we already activated will chase us down and phase through the wall of this room to come after us… ok, I’m not actually worried about that [LOL, I am trying to be good-natured and make fun of my own paranoia and what I have gotten wrong already]. I’m not worried about reading the Note either, although it could be something like Explosive Runes (a type of magic trap in D&D that activates when you read it), which we’ve never seen before in DE — I’d only be worried about the Note being a trap if the visual graphic for the Note by Lara was different from the graphic for the other Notes. I am much more seriously worried that opening the Chest and especially removing the contents will alert the Turn 20 Guard patrol and thus commit us to fighting them! The visual graphic for Chests always change once they have been opened and I don’t think we’ve tried to get it to change back to looking like a closed chest before. Claudious already agreed with my warning about that and changed Lara to reading the Note instead of looting the Chest, which I think is as safe as any action can possibly be in that room Lara is in.
We have not tried ‘closing’ a chest. but we know that once opened, they can be moved away. Ricky and small ones can hardly push it, but Cordy and Ama might be able to pick it up and i.e. drop via floor trap, or hide it somewhere. A chest wide open may look alerting, a chest missing might go unnoticed. Obviously, chest dropped via floor trap will be noticed, but it’s such a fun!
There is a hint that we might be able to ‘close’ a chest over on https://dungeoneyes.com/how-to-play/ under TRYING THINGS.
A chest dropped via floor trap, followed up by a GolemCoreBomb dropped through the opened floor trap, followed by a lit Torch will also be noticed, as well as injure or kill 4 Guards and wreck something that is important to the Empire… something that we may or may not need for completing some plot in this dungeon (such as rescuing someone)… and possibly release some yellow Holy wisps. [I should mention that I’m not sure of the range of an explosion, it might not actually be as effective in this room as my description suggests; my original thought was doing that at the floor trap in the second room or from the top of the ladder in that room that leads down from the tall main hallway on about Turn 41]
Can we please wait until after the Turn 20 Guard patrol leaves before doing anything that will cause mass mayhem?
:pouting: maaaybe 😉
I thought your plan was fight skeletons?
Scouting the room and skeletons with amad first. He has meat to heal if they have any surprises
I would be curious to see the math for Wolf (Amadeusz) vs. the two Reinforced Skeletons, one wielding some sort of Dagger (there are several types we don’t know what they look like or do yet like Spring and Venom, but the dagger graphic does look like it is just a plain Atk +1 dagger) wearing Plate Armor and carrying a Tower Shield and the other with a Crossbow, possibly with some sort of special ammunition. However, we brought plenty of Raw Meat to heal Wolf so I’m not too worried about what surprises the dungeon designer may have prepared for us and Wolf forcing his way past them alone will probably tell us if the one with the Crossbow is using Explosive Bolts or something similar (I give that a greater than 50% chance, based on the Skeleton’s location and the theme and structure of this Dungeon, but hey I’m wrong at least half of the time when I speculate).
Examples of known types of special ammunition (for any readers who don’t feel like looking through the Items page themselves):
ARROW, PIERCING
Ammunition
Can be used with a bow. If it cannot pierce Def, it deals 1 unblockable damage. Expended after use.
Weight 1 (Stack 6), Cost 6
BOLT, EXPLOSIVE
Ammunition
Can be used with a crossbow. Deals area fire damage. Expended after use.
Weight 1, Cost 5
Assuming it’s a regular bolt, it’s like and attack of 6
Explosive or other magic bolts would be amazing to use against wisps. I think Amad should kill the crossbow skeleton ASAP and Ricki scout so we save as many bolts as possible.
If its a powerful single target magic bolt, Amad will tank it anyway. If it is a AoE bolt, Ricki has enough def to take no damage while passing through.
Maybe reading the Notes below the reinforced skeletons will tell us some more about what we are dealing with. We may want to consider reading all 3 Notes before we fight or force our way past the two skeletons to get eyes on that upper right room. Being too quick and eager to get eyes on another room has cost us before.
Those reinforced skeletons look like they’ve been set there to guard the entrance to the open upper right room, as if the inhabitant(s) of that room wanted to keep randomly spawned wisps away. That is one of the reasons that the skeleton having elemental bolts (like Explosive Bolts) would make sense. The other reason is that the dungeon designer tends to give us the opportunity to get what we will need in a dungeon (even if we didn’t bring Lohk or whatever the ideal character for that dungeon would have been).
If we want to check what sort of Bolts the reinforced skeleton with the crossbow has in its inventory, I think that Ricki’s Case Ability would tell us that… if we aren’t in too much of a rush to get eyes on that next room.
We might have just found a setup that might have been a really good use for Sneaky I, since the description doesn’t say that Ricki using Sneaky is an action or that Ricki cannot attack an enemy while invisible/sneaking (such as the skeleton with a crossbow). Maybe someone on Discord can clarify how Sneaky would work if we bought it for Ricki.
From: https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-12-ricki-level-up/
Sneaky I: Once per dungeon can become undetectable by enemies until end of turn. Can’t be carrying any item of weight 3 or higher while sneaking.
Sneaky is an action. Confirmed by LSN on discord a while back.
Plan 2: Go Down.
This plan engages the guards, which will mean we definitely will have to deal with the patrol as well but we do get to explore lower area (which seems more important) and that red pipe.
Ricki: Point out trap to Amad and Cordy as they come down. Attack Solar Knight (8dmg)
Amad: Move down. Avoid trap. Attack Solar Knight (9dmg)
Cordy: Assign new mushy to Ricki. Move down. Avoid trap. Attack Solar Knight at ranged with wand (2dmg). Use midas gloves to convert to gold.
Lara: Move up, move right and attack Solar Knight (13dmg)
This should One turn kill it (7 def, 18hp) and allow the less def chars to move to basement. We risk some damage based on who the wisp and solar target (and if Ricki Dodges) but it shouldn’t be more that 5 in the worst case (Rick being hit by both and failing both dodges). She can survive that (barely)
Next turn, Amad and Cordy can clear Barricade and move left after towards guards. Lara can loot/read note and Ricki can ID bats and use hole to scout (probably Right) or unlock the gate for loot
Cordy has the magic gloves that will make one fight a jackpot. If people go for this plan then don’t forget to specify if you want to take advantage of the potential payout (or hold out for a better score).
Lone HP18 Solar Guardian + party of 4 murderhobos + Midas Gloves = Cha-ching!
Another good point. Didn’t think it worked with wands but it just says “helps defeat”. Edited in
what is the blue tank surrounded by guards?
That looks to be like the canister in the intermission that traps the elemental wisps. This is probably a filling station
Probably the source of the “forbidden jello shot” https://dungeoneyes.com/intermission-12-page-18/#comment-15368 (and see the top two pictures there on I12P18).
(i.e. I agree with Claudious)
Yup. It looks just like the one from intermission, and also it’s connected to the pipes. But we don’t see any valves for this section of the pipes, that’s a bit odd. A filling-station wouldn’t leave the pipes wide open once the container is removed.
The boss in the new room is not an Enforcer, it is a new elite variant of a Justiciar. Look closely at the images in the enemies page, especially the helmet details.
Thanks! I did notice that the head and helmet didn’t match either the Enforcer or the Justicar image on the Enemies page and I’ve been calling out the lack of eyeslits just in case that was an error. The ‘bat shape’ of this boss-person’s faceplate looks like the Enforcer but without eye slits… and now that you’ve mentioned it the color of the faceplate matches the Justicar, not the Enforcer. The rest of the head being black seemed closer to the Justicar. I wasn’t sure if it was going to be due to Items or if this was something we hadn’t seen before. The part below the belt also looks like the Justicar’s robe, underneath Imperial Plate Armor on the chest. I think you’re right, this may be some sort of upgraded Justicar (Justicar Elite or Justicar Enforcer or something) and there being no eyeslits would fit the theme of “blind justice” so an upgraded Justicar seems the most likely. It is also possible that we may even be looking at one of the four remaining Imperial Champions so we should keep that in mind, but since this dungeon is magic-themed and the Justicar seems like the Imperial magic-user type this is probably the Justicar equivalent of a Guard Enforcer. I wonder if there is an “Justicar Elite” somewhere too that is the equivalent of a Guard Elite (or maybe that is what this ‘boss’ is). I went back and edited my previous Comments to try to include both the words Justicar and Enforcer when referring to this boss-person in the room Lara is in.
The “Justicar Enforcer” boss may have an Ability that buffs the other Guards in the room so we should allow for that possibility.
The Justicar we saw in dungeon 5 had a ranged yellow (Holy) beam attack if I remember correctly, so this boss version may be here in the dungeon and in this specific room to keep everything but Holy wisps away.
The Wanted Poster first appeared in the dungeon where we met a Justicar (dungeon 5, The Kobold Warrens). It is possible that there is a connection, especially given how many Wanted Poasters are in this dungeon (presumably 9, one in each room). It would not surprise me if this “Justicar Enforcer” has an ability that can produce Wanted Posters, thus explaining one mystery of this dungeon (how they can afford so many Wanted Posters).
If we get the opportunity, both a Magic Lens and Case would be prudent, but we should be cautious when we do those since we know Justicars have magic and he/she/it may notice the attempt (hopefully with the traditional “!” and not acting until the next Turn).
I’m going to post a more cautious version of Claudious’ plan to go upwards first.
Lara: Quietly read the note next to you. Move up. Move right and safely force your way past the Solar Guardian again (you could at least try to look sorry), ending Turn 5 in middle of the room out of reach of the Solar Guardian and out of line of sight of the blue wisp.
Ricki: Avoid the trap in front of the ladder. Move up. Point out the pressure plates above the Owlbear to the group and avoid them. Use your Case Ability on the Reinforced Skeleton with the Crossbow so we will know how many and what sort of Bolts it has.
Cordy: Avoid the two pressure plate traps Ricki points out. Read note 1.
Wolf (Amadeusz): Avoid the two pressure plate traps packmate Ricki points out. Read note 2.
(note: The Skeleton with the Crossbow may have just normal Bolts or it may have Explosive Bolts that do 3 area fire damage at range, or other new elemental Bolts, which would be very useful to us in dealing with wisps and thus we’ll want to take it out quickly before it can use more than one elemental Bolt against us; we really should know this before trying to force our way past it because we’ll “lose” two Bolts that way.)
Feedback and suggestions are welcome. I am still learning how to do this.
There are plenty of things to do next turn. Lara can destroy or ignore the wisp. There’s one more Note to read, the reinforced skeletons to deal with (preferably in a way that gets up two little mushroom pets), the room beyond the skeletons (to the right) to get eyes on, and Ricki could Case the Chest in the Owlbear room or go use echolocation on the bats if everyone else has things covered and she gets bored. If we are considering Darth Owlbear we should use Case on its Chest on one Turn and if that looks promising then consider using a Magic Lens the next Turn, and only then consider using the GolemCoreBomb (preferably after searching the upper rooms for a lever to open the area it is trapped in).
I like not losing bolts, but I’m not seeing the point of casing the skeleton.
Lets say we case and learn it has powerful magic bolts, what would we do next? Send Amad to kill it since he has meat to heal?
OR we could just send Amad to kill it in the first place and not waste an action?
Btw, skellies are immune to poison, we cant get mushies from them. 🙁
You have a valid point. Here is the long explanation:
I’d actually like to know what those first two Notes say before we hit the skeletons, since they’re the ones that I think might be most relevant to the skeletons (I suspect that the last note is a warning about the sealed dark owlbear). An example might be a Note that says, “Watch out for the traps. I also put some skeletons to guard the door to the workshop against the wisps. They’ll attack anyone who is armed so make sure your weapons are put away before entering.” LOL, an easy way to avoid the skeletons if we want to (and probably attack them from behind later). It may be unlikely but we do have a tendency to outrun our intel/information in our headlong rush to explore everything as fast as possible. If we are going to wait upstairs until after the Turn 20 Guard patrol leaves then we’re probably going to have enough time to explore more cautiously than we normally do. Of course I could be terribly wrong about that and there might turn out to be far more than 3 rooms upstairs or this might really be a rush to finish the whole dungeon by Turn 20, but it doesn’t seem that way from the information we currently have.
The results of the Case might actually be important. Depending on what the Bolts actually are, if they’re something new, there might be a better strategy for dealing with them once we know their item description. A very quick, simple and possibly silly example would be if the skellie had a silver bolt +10 Atk vs. werewolves and a Rotfang Venom Gland, then just send in Lara instead of Wolf. Another possibility might be the question of what happens if the crossbow skellie is using Explosive Bolts (Atk: 3 ranged area-effect) and we bring up Lara and her Web Binding spell that we’ve never tried before that I can remember (-3 Atk and -3 Def to target for the first Turn it is in effect). I did a writeup a few pages ago that I think that the debuff of her Web Binding spell would probably take effect before the target’s attack was resolved that Turn (I can find and link to that Comment if you’d like) and if that happens then the crossbow skellie’s Atk/damage (I’m not sure which word to use) would be 3-3=0 and the most logical ‘flavor text’ result would be that the crossbow is covered by the webs and doesn’t fire at all and the Explosive Bolt is not expended… heh, I might just possibly have found a way to actually save the Bolt AND get Lara her +2 Atk for the rest of the dungeon for Make It Count.
On a more plain and simple theme, if the skellie has powerful area effect bolts we might not want to send the lower Def Ricki or Cordy into the fray and send in Amad alone, however if the skellie has only normal Bolts then sending in everyone, Lara and Cordy to kill the Tower Shield skellie and Lara takes its shield (not wasting an action to get it into her inventory if somebody else attacks it; or substitute Ricki for Lara if you think the Tower Shield would best go to Ricki, or Amad if you think the Tower Shield is best taken by Wolf and put on Molly), Wolf to kill the crossbow skellie, and Ricki to dodge past it all and scout the left room might make sense. I trust you to come up with the most optimal strategy, if it actually becomes important. However, I suspect that the getting the info from the Notes before we rush ahead is more likely to have a payoff than the Case, if there’s going to be any payoff at all for not just rushing in with Wolf to attack the crossbow skellie.
However, perhaps the biggest motivation is that it is currently Turn 4, we have at least two unknown rooms in the upper levels (and probably not more than those 2 from looking at the general layout) and probably 18 or so Turns to deal with those two rooms (plus the Solar Guardian, if we want to) if we’re not going to explore more downstairs until after watching the Turn 20 Guard patrol eventually leave without starting a search for intruders. So let me ask you, what’s the rush? Is it just habit from the dozen painfully time-limited dungeons we’ve done up to now? Is there some secret knowledge from Discord that I don’t have? Do we think we’ll find something in the two unknown upper rooms that is going to either take a LOT of time or is going to somehow change the time limitations about the Turn 20 Guard patrol or about them only searching for intruders if they “notice something amiss”? Do you think the GM was lying when Turn 0 said: “Time Limit: More Elemental Wisps will spawn every 10 turns. Additionally, every 20 turns a Guard patrol will enter the dungeon to collect the dungeon’s output. If they find anything amiss, they will begin to search for intruders.”
Btw, I’m probably just remembering getting mushroom pets from the Skeletal Swarmfish, I didn’t actually check the details. Was that due to bringing the Rotfang Hood to the Poisoned Well to bypass poison immunity but not bringing it here? Sigh, it is easy to forget details when I’m new to the mechanics side of the Game instead of just following the webcomic. 🙁
NOTE: I have no idea if that idea about Web Binding preventing a crossbow from firing or expending a Bolt on its first Turn of effect would actually work or not, but it was a thought, an idea, a notion.
Maybe the words “Atk” and “damage” have very specific and esoteric meanings in Dungeon Eyes?
Perhaps the Atk debuff for Web Binding only affects the target’s melee “Atk” value but not a ranged weapon’s “damage” value (which does not add to someone’s “Atk” value) and thus Web Binding has no effect whatsoever on an archer, which seems weird but there’s lots of weird stuff in the DE game mechanics (and Coccyx would have been AWESOME to have had with the party back at the Overgrown Farm, just like Lohk being totally immune to the Atk debuff that formed the time limit of that dungeon and Ricki and others should have been using Throwing Daggers and Spears that were immune to the debuff on that adventure).
Maybe this has all been discussed on Discord and everyone over there knows exactly how “Atk” buffs and debuffs affect missile weapon and ranged attack and magic “damage” or maybe we’re in uncharted territory here. A similar question arises if Lara uses her Web Binding on a Wisp (for some reason), since they have an Atk value but it seems to be only for ranged attacks and not for melee… maybe Lara’s Web Binding would debuff the attack of a Wisp (for 3 Turns) because that ranged attack is specifically called “Atk” but be completely ineffective on an archer or crossbowman for some reason (because their weapon has a “damage” stat but no “Atk” stat). The same basic question arises for the +2Atk buff that Lara gets for Make It Count, does that increase the damage of her basic Venomous Sting I spell from 3 to 5 for the rest of the dungeon (which would be nice) or does the +2Atk only affect her melee combat but not her spells because physical attacks and magic are different? What if Lara used the crossbow after using Make It Count, that’s a physical weapon and not a spell? I think I’ve more than made my point and demonstrated my utter confusion.
This sort of stuff is very typical of the 1st edition of many games and a big reason I totally avoided the game mechanics side of Dungeon Eyes for so long and just enjoyed reading the webcomic. I’m currently torn about whether to join Discord or just give up.
I’m sure that discussions about DE game mechanics like this probably belong over on Discord but I haven’t yet decided if I want to take the plunge and get that involved, it seems likely to be a big time sink and a source of frustration (perhaps for both me and the folks over on Discord).
It’s true we don’t know for sure if the web binding will block a ranged attack since it uses different stats/rules. Working with incomplete knowledge is part of this game for better and for worse. We could try it at a cost to learn, but the reward may not be worth it.
And yes, the rotfang hood allowed Cordy so to dmg to undead and thus allows mushies to spawn. The requirement as shown on the char page is that the target needs to be organic (so prob not wisps) and takes poison dmg from Cordy (undead are immune normally)
I am not super confident about 18 tuns being a lot until we see those rooms.
The left side probably needs us to go down, clear the dog group in the entrance room and then back up again before we can deal with the rest of the corner room.
The right side is even worse, with it actually ending in the tank room where we need to fight 3 dogs, loot two chests and probably inspect the crack in the pipe.
And movement might limit us too. The end of the left corner room is like, three rooms away from the magicrow room.
I’m fine with your plan about the skellies too, you know what you’re doing better than I do and it is the SOP after all, I just wanted to actually be careful and not outrun our info/intel and actually act like spies/thieves for once.
What does it matter anyway what I was thinking about having Ricki using Case on the skellie with the crossbow? By far the leading plan right now is by “I make bad decisions” to have Ricki run downstairs and jump in the red pipe without reading the Note next to it. LOL!
That plan might actually be possible if Lara blocks the Solar Guardian for Ricki and Ricki avoids the breakfloor trap, surprises the Justicar Enforcer boss-person from behind and just runs past them before they can react with more than a “!” and runs straight down to jump in the red pipe. It’s probably just a joke that the GM won’t take seriously, but if it was treated seriously then it is technically a “Hail Mary” risk everything on one throw of the dice, long-shot, silly plan that dares the GM to let the party get away with it or just end the story right here. I admit to being somewhat curious what the DM/GM/author/storyteller/etc will do if that is still the leading plan on Monday.
[edit: To treat this question of what might happen and the plan suggested by “I make bad decisions” that people are voting for more seriously, that red pipe probably in the lower left corner either is not enterable at all, or it works exactly like a hole in the back wall and leads to a screen we have not seen yet or the perhaps even the one hole in the back wall that we have seen, or it is some sort of ’emergency exit’ that allows us to abandon the dungeon and Ricki just running down and jumping into it without even reading the Note will cause our first “abandon” result.]
I was going to post an alternate go up plan but this works. Honestly, having Ricki case first is not the end of the world. As you mentioned there are benefits. The more important thing for me is that there isn’t an obvious risk to anyone
“DON’T POST IT DON’T POST IT DON’T POST IT DON’T DON’T DON’T DON’T DON’T” — https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-11-turn-19/
Another variant of going up that combines the advantage of scouting and not losing more potentially valuable bolts.
Basically same risk as Claudious’ variant because Amad get shot by crossbow skelly in both and an AoE bolt would need to be 6+ damage to deal any damage to Ricki. And thats IF dagger skelly target her AND get past her dodge.
(Ricki has 7 defense with mushie, dagger skelly has +1 from dagger and -1 from tower shield so only 2 atk)
Lara: read the note next to you. Move up. Move right and end turn in middle of the room out of reach of wisp and Solar.
New mushie: follow Ricki to buff her def just in case
Ricki: Avoid the trap. Move up. Point out the 2 pressure plates to the group and avoid them. Read the note closest to the owlbear. Point traps again to Cordy and avoid them while scouting right.
Cordy: Avoid trap. Read note 1. End turn to the left of the traps while avoiding them.
Amad: Avoid Trap. Kill crossbow skelly.
I’m starting to wonder if LSN is laughing at us all weekend for agonizing over the bolts and will reveal it was just regular bolts… >.<
We did get our last tower shield from an encounter with very weak attack.
And someone pointed out on discord that the crossbow image on the item page has no bolt while we can see the image of a regular bolt loaded into this crossbow.