Dungeon 4 Turn 8
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Kamau opens the chest that the beavers were guarding. Inside he finds another shield, which isn’t exactly exciting, but undeniably useful. The remaining beaver seems angry that he’s taking it, but can’t do anything about it.
Lara gives the shield, longsword, and rat tails to Ricki, who then ducks back through the rat tunnel. Lara also pushes the empty puzzle chest off the nearby ledge, where it drops into the water and pushes the lever into the lowered position. This causes the grate to descend, allowing access to the upper floor but permanently locking away the lower ones.
Ricki emerges on the other side of the tunnel and quickly throws her longsword at the small rat, but although the attack cuts it in half immediately, she gets hit in the face by its severed head. The rat pile then surges forward and attacks, dealing 1 damage.
In the other room, Kamau gains another point of Remorse.
Chest theory worked, but with 3 remorse we cant do the room 1 2nd floor room (ricki would have to drown twice). But we CAN do the beaver barricade which is still a good option.
Also, Rat King Buff confirmed that it requires LOS.
Also confirmed, levers are tied to 1 grate only
Ricki doesn’t need to stay in the lever room, she can chill by the exit while she waits for Kamau and Lara.
Beaver barricade on the other hand will probably cause people to start drowning because they’ll be ending their turns underwater while fighting, interposing, or looting.
Ricki could kill the rat pile, loot its drop, grab the long sword, fetch keys outside, return and loot chest. She can chill later (please).
If lever room floods, move to enter, action to flip lever. End turn. Drown a bit.
We’d have to do it twice to let the others back out.
Why drowning on beaver barricade? Can’t people kick the barricade and then move up the ladder? It’s not exiting the room nor interrupting the combat, right? Is walking up the ladder an action, or do I miss somethign completly obvious?
Kamau: Take the leather armor from Lara, then climb the ladder and interpose if the rats turn around. If not, go left.
Ricki: Ignore the rats, grab the longsword if it’s unguarded, go back through the hole, trade the longsword for a set of lockpicks from Lara, then climb up the ladder and go left
Lara: Climb the ladder and go left, climb down and pick up the rusty greatsword, then Sting the barricade
Lara can attack the barricade as well. since looting an unattended item is a free action.
Edit: Just checked and Ricki doesnt have a lockpick to open chest.
Let’s get as much “free” shit as we can before moving onward. Every weapon or armor we find will help us face either the rat king or the treasure room. And we’ll need the extra defense if the rats from the first lever room climb up through the hole when it’s flooded. That’s 10 atk.
Edit: Whose idea was it to give Ricki two weapons but no lockpicks?
The idea was for Ricki to kill the rat pile and after that get lock-picks and loot the chest. Therefore Ricki now has the rat fang and the rat tails, making an atk +4. Unfortunately the pile will survive that. If it is buffed it will cause remorse, twice, causing Kamau to “leave”. If it is not buffed, Ricki should be save and kill it in two rounds.
Rat pile at the place where Ricky is now should not be buffed. Someone noted that LSN confirmed that the buff requires LOS (i.e. King Rat has to see and order the rats, etc)
That was mine, I thought rat piles couldn’t move and that they would each have extra attack. Oh well.
Good point, exiting may be rough. Kamau with shield and armour can Intercede to let everyone past though, as long as we don’t spend all the HP.
Actually.. I wonder if Counterattack can trigger if Kamau is Intercede’ing and gets sucessfuly hit by the enemy?
That was the hope when we selected it, especially given how Intercede is in place of an attack enough so to prevent him from leaving the room. The extra attack may not apply when not attacking, but if you’re taking an attack-type action and swap one of those attacks for another effect, then an extra attack should work.
That said, Interpose says “In place of attacking”, not “in place of an attack”. We also have three turns in this dungeon of no Counterattack when damaged while interceding, though that means little given how Kamau is 1/9 for regular Counterattack.
Counterattack only works if Kamau is loosing HP to one (or more) enemy, and then only has a 20% chance to trigger. Not sure if this is once per turn he loses HP, or once per enemy, in a turn he loses HP, but I’m guessing the former.
Kamau: interpose to protect Lara if needed, then proceed to next room
Lara: go up and to the left, shoot at small rat.
Ricki, go back, kill a rat, take lockpicks from lara
Kamau: Give longsword to Lara. Move up and interpose if rats engage. If not, move to room to the left and attack barricade with Hilt.
Lara: give ricki lockpicks and take rat tails. Move to room on left, loot rusty greatsword. Attack Barricade with Longsword.
Ricki move back through tunnel, give Lara rat tails, take lockpicks, move back through tunnel again.
Ricki doest have lockpicks so she needs to get some and free up space for the locked chest.
Edit: Freed up more space so ricki can carry back her loot.
Why Kamau can’t take rusty greatsword and use it (and +1Atk from Heavy Sword Proficiency)
My reasoning is that we do not know if it take 2 hands, and also, it might break.
Might break – true. But if we want to loot the 2nd floor chests we will need to take that risk I think.
We DO know it takes only 1 hand. See the picture of the guard holding greatsword AND a torch in his second hand (dungeon-2-turn-50)
That guard might have had a special skill that allowed him to one-hand-wield a two-handed-weapon. LSN said at some point in the past that the “great-sword proficiency” skill did NOT enable Kamau to wield a greatsword with one hand, and he pointed out that the description of said skill didn’t say that, either. (Sorry, don’t have a quote on that handy.)
If rat pile hits with +6Atk (not +1 from rat head and +5 from rat pile) because Rat King gives +1Atk to rat pile, then it seems taking down Rat King with Lara’s +8Atk and some other ranged attacks is a good way to make the rat pile harmless for Ricki (with current +5 Def).
Also, some chests can contain useful gear to increase Ricki’s defense or make ranged attacks. So it will be better to check some of them before.
It will be better for Ricki to retreat from this room for now.
Also, I think it’s possible to try to talk to Rat King. Maybe he is able (and want) to negotiate, but not to fight?..
Upd. Ricki can get the second shield from Kamau so her Def will be +7. Then she can go loot the chest and pull the lever when it is needed. However, she need to check that she can use the lever after the chest is opened. Otherwise, we can’t open this chest before the fight with Rat King is finished and the lever is used second time.
Upd2. These are propositions for the future after we try to loot beaver chests. Except for trying to talk to Rat King (which will cost nothing because, as far as I remember, it is not an action).
Well, Rat King does not buff enemies outside his line of sight. Good.
Ricki: double move, leave through the wall hole and then come back to this room through the opened grate and go downstairs.
Lara: get longsword from Kamau and follow Ricki as she emerges from the wall hole, once in the dam level, attack the dam.
Kamau: follow the ladies, pick up rusty greatsword.
Next, Kamau takes armor from Lara and interposes, Ricki and Lara loot.
No doubts?
– Rat King was a unique boss, had 10 HP and buffed all rats in the room with +1 attack (https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-2-report/)
– Ricki, having used her Grit ability and crawled through the tunnel next to the red chest, finds herself in what appears to be the final room of the dungeon. (https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-4-turn-6/)
Are you sure that rat head makes 1 damage?
I don’t think LSN would go through all the trouble of both describing the hit from the rat head as well as depicting it this very way, if the rat head wouldn’t matter in Ricki losing 1 HP this turn. He’s usually a very fair GM and he -does- give us hints in the update text and the visuals.
Yep, he makes a point of how all combat is simultaneous even if the ranged attack starting the fight kills an enemy at a distance. The bat hit by the throwing dagger also got to attack Kamau even though it story-wise died first.
Kamau: Take the armor from Lara, Interpose, go left.
Ricki: Go back to Lara and take one lockpick, give her the rat tails in exchange, go back inside.
Lara: Go left, loot the sword and attack the barrier.
Ricki: Go through the hole, trade the Rat Fang and tails for a lockpick from Lara, then go back through the hole
Kamau: Take the leather armor from Lara, then climb the ladder and interpose if necessary. Otherwise, continue left.
Lara: Climb the ladder and go left, then grab the rusty greatsword and climb back up one level
We only have one dry turn left before the next level floods. I think we should abandon the beaver barricade. We’d have to spend multiple turns there, even if the barricade is clear at turn 10 and Kamau interposes and Lara and Ricki loot, and it’s possible LSN will make us “end our turn” with the beavers/chest instead of at the air pockets. Even in the best case scenario, we lose valuable time to clear either the rat king or the treasure room safely. We already lost a turn being greedy having Kamau try to get the plague rat chest, let’s just play it safe right now and then put our eyes on the big prize.
Agreed, better to ensure we get one of the two big rooms rather than the smaller room. We can set up for one of the options best
We can’t do the “three chest area” in the entrance room anymore (with everyone getting a skill point), because Ricki would have to “drown” twice in order to get Kamau and Lara in AND out of there. This would cause Kamau’s remorse to go up to 5 and he will abandon the dungoen again.
I’m a bit on the fence about going up against the rat king and his four rat friends (regular, dire, plague and beaver). That’s 20 HP (assuming dire, plague and beaver have 3 each – which is a guess, it could be higher – and the regular rat has 1 HP) that we’d have to take down, while eating (1+1) regular rat + (2+1) dire rat + (3+1) plague rat + (?+1) beaver + ?? rat king damage.
In the first turn, that would be at least 12 damage (and that’s if I’m assuming the lowest possible attack value of 1 for both beaver and rat king), unless we can kill some of them off in ranged combat through the grate.
I’m going to try and calculate how many turns it would take until we have all the “accompanying rats” down.
9: Lara snipes and kills the regular rat (one turn spent -2 incoming attack achieved)
10: Lara snipes the plague rat, wounds it (gonna assume 2 HP damage, because of the spell’s description).
11: Lara snipes and kills the plague rat, (two turns spent on the plague rat, -4 incoming attack achieved)
12: Lara snipes the dire rat, wounds it (gonna assume 2 HP damage, because of the spell’s description).
13: Lara snipes the dire rat, kills it (two turns spent on dire rat, -3 incoming attack achieved)
14: Lara snipes the beaver rat, wounds it (gonna assume 2 HP damage, because of the spell’s description).
15: Lara snipes the beaver rat, kills it (two turns spent on beaver rat, -2 incoming attack achieved; or more, depending on how much attack a beaver has, but in the upper calculation aobut the incoming damage, I optimistically assumed the beavers to have 1 attack only, so I’m using the same value here.)
That means no sooner than turn 16 (and the second level of all rooms would be submerged by then) we could have Ricki lift the grate, IF we want our other characters to face the rat king ONLY.
We can have her do that sooner. E.g. kill off plague rat + dire rat = 4 turns and have 1+1 (regular rat), 1+1 (beaver rat) and 1 (rat king) damage left over. AGAIN, this is assuming that both the beaver and the rat king have ridiculously low stats. That would enable Ricki to throw the lever in turn 13 and Kamau and Lara can jump into the fray, but still 14 HP to go (10 rat king, 1 regular rat, 3? beaver rat), and Kamau would most likely have to interpose in order to avoid his remorse hitting the critical point again.
14 HP in 7 turns seems just about doable without corruption for Lara, but it is cutting things REALLY close.
Especially if I take into account that we might have to have Ricki go back and throw the lever again to let Kamau and Lara out (or be trapped behind that grate and “drown”, because she can’t exit via the rat tunnel anymore, as the grate would be in the way).
And that the values (for HP and attack) are very likely higher than what I assumed. Heck, the rat king could even have a weapon on him (that we don’t see yet), which could make him super deadly.
Therefore personally, I think it’s time to cut our losses, or in other words: I’m all for grabbing every other chest that we can possibly reach (including those behind the barricade and the 2 beavers in the rat king room) and hope for 2 more treasures, not going after either the immediate rat king area or the three chest area in the “entrance” room anymore. Of course you can be of a different opinion.
List of the chests we can still get:
We don’t need to have any of our characters “drown” for these even once (if LSN allows our characters to resurface after having a bout with the beavers). We don’t have to faff around with any more levers either.
That would be
https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-4-turn-8/#comment-3334
, right? And additionally we can get that broadsword and some rat tails.
The spell’s declaration is damage, but that just means it doesn’t add the users atk. The dawn mitre, also specified as damage “Allows the wearer to make ranged attacks that deal 1 holy damage and light up the room.”, did not hurt a skeleton. “Ricki attempts to use her holy bolts against one of the other skeletons, but it doesn’t seem to do anything.”
https://dungeoneyes.com/dungeon-3-turn-25/
I suggested that Lara could start nibbling at the rats for 2dmg/turn, but then someone pointed out that it’s a “ranged attack” and it’s subject to being reduced by DEF, like 1dmg DawnMitre and shooting roosting bats for effective 0 dmg.
All the rats there seem to have at least 1 DEF, and that means at most 1dmg per turn from Lara’s ability (unless it’s bypassing their armour for some inobvious reason)
The beaver barricade is the only room left that we can do something with while having air to return to. The rat treasure room will require Ricki to spend two turns underwater and the king rat room is hilariously deadly and to interact with it in those last few turns requires that Ricki be trapped in this room underwater.
Meanwhile, right up until our time limit we can swim down, maybe loot submerged chests, and end turn up with air.
I also don’t want to run into a nasty surprise in the opening room on turn 19.
You sill have an action from Lara free here. Use it to blast a small rat.
Edit: Awaiting for approval,rewording
You still have a Lara action here. Use it to blast a small rat.
Edit: Awaiting for approval,rewording
We still have a free Lara action. use it to shoot a small rat.
Help! I’m trapped in a time loop! 😛
I’m all for the beaver dam, both Lara and Kamau have an ection still (provided if Kamau doesn’t need to interpose). We could start attacking the dam next turn
Ricki: Attack rat pile with Rat Fang. Move over to locked chest, stand on top.
Kamau: Leave a set of thieves tools by the rat tunnel. Head left, grab rusty greatsword, attack barricade with biggest sword you can use.
Lara: Head left, attack barricade with the sword Kamau can’t use.
Lara and Kamau regroup by locked chest.
Greatsword on Kamau has the 50% miss chance but hopefully won’t have break chance on a miss, and Heavy Sword Proficiency adds free damage.
Why so?
@Flame: Because we don’t have a light source anymore, after the torch was doused, when Lara swam with it in turn 5 and Kamau can’t see in the dark.
@King Marth: I don’t think Kamau can wield a great-sword with only one arm/hand, but it’s good that you try it out, then we’ll know for sure, one way or the other, instead of just guessing. 🙂
Technically: Because it is dark and humans claim that they cannot see in the dark. On the other hand, if he can grab a sword, why should a barricade have the ability to hide in the dark?
You know dem barricades, little sneaky bastards.
Do you maybe want Ricki to use a rat tail to boost her attack on the rat pile, or did you deliberately not write that down in your suggestion?
I think we should. We want it down asap. We probably won’t get rid of it in one turn even if Kamau uses the largest sword and even if it has surprisingly good stats, but it makes a difference: either we need full two rounds and total of four attacks from two guys, or one round with two attacks and then one attack in the next round – and the other person has still an action to use.
I deliberately did not spend the rat tail to hopefully one-shot the rat pile. I don’t see much benefit to saving another Ricki action, especially if Kamau and Lara are busy with the barricade and beavers for a while.
That said, rat tails are cheap and flexibility is good. I’ll add an alternative, don’t want to redirect votes.
That is clever!
Alternate, feeding Rat Fang:
Ricki: Attack rat pile with Rat Fang, spending a rat tail for +3 attack. Move over to locked chest, stand on top.
Kamau: Leave a set of thieves tools by the rat tunnel. Head left, grab rusty greatsword, attack barricade with biggest sword you can use.
Lara: Head left, attack barricade with the sword Kamau isn’t using.
Lara and Kamau regroup by locked chest.
If those rats attack Lara, Kamau will remorse. We need to have him interpose even if it delays him getting to the barricade a turn. Additionally, we should have Ricki use her rat tail.
Future thoughts:
If we can crack the barricade, then I suggest we have Lara Sting the beavers from dry land to try baiting them out. Deal with those and we find out if those three chests are lootable while underwater. Meanwhile, Ricki unlocks the two locked chests we can reach, which gives us good odds of finding two more Treasures.
I think we burned our resources getting Rat Fang this dungeon. The sun sphere could’ve gotten us through the king rat room, the rat treasure room, or to the devil rat in time, and we took the last of those at the time we had to decide which was before we knew our options. I’m good with taking these five (!) chests, safely clearing the way out to load up on rat tails, and leaving the dungeon.
Nice, confirmation that the action of looting a chest also puts the item into inventory even when guarded.
Good call on the idea of tripping the lever with the chest, that makes a lot more possible.
Ricki : walk out to grab the lockpicks from lara and come back.
Lara: give lockpicks to ricki and then move back to the first room to snipe a small rat from behind the grate .
Kamau: join lara and interpose if the rats come running through the grate.
We don’t have the resources to focus on the beaver dam given that is going to flood soon and the rat king is a reach. Best bet is to get the two locked chests we can get on this level and then prepare to maybe get the three chests in the first room behind the grate. If we have time or good great from these two locked chests then we can reassess but we need to prioritize not risking remorse or damage right now so we can level and get good gear.
To open the grate, would Ricki not have to spend time at the lever in the first room, which will be flooded in but one turn? Or are we just trying to determine whether we can shoot through grates? If the latter: First fetch the broadsword before it gets wet, try the sniping later.
Yes. That’s one damage we know she’ll get. That’s why we need to avoid any more remorse triggers now and in the future if we can avoid them.
I don’t think we’ll be able to reliably get the beaver dam down in time before it floods which means were fighting multiple beavers underwater and looting chests. This way we just flip a switch and leave for dry ground.
She’ll have to go back and flip the lever again to let them out. That’s 2 damage and remorse kicks in
So we hope the two locked chests have treasure that counts. We might not even have to get it. If we have to, yes remorse kicks in and that sucks. But we can loot the next three chests with time to spare.
In terms of water, it’s a better idea than having everybody spend 2-3 turns underwater at the beaver barricade.
In terms of the rat king, we won’t need to spend any corruption to access three chests.
Regarding “getting the chests first”, there could be anything useful in those two locked chests. Maybe we find a crossbow we could use vs the rat king. Maybe we could find a snorkel to let somebody last an extra turn underwater. Maybe we could find a treasure each per locked chest.
Most importantly, if we go for the beaver 3 chests, then the two locked chests, we’ll be at or right before turn 15, meaning we have to take on the rat king (and escape) in less than 5 turns. If we get the locked chests now, we have 10 turns to take on either the treasure room or the rat king.
Lever 1 and Lever 2 both opened the door on Floor 1 and closed the door on Floor 2, directly beneath it.
I think Lever 3 is going to do the same, meaning that going for the barricade and then the Rat King will cause Ricki to be locked in. If my rough estimation is correct (below), we will literally not be able to do anything after the barricade, because both the treasure room and lever 3 will be locked and flooded.
9: attack barricade
10: break barricade
11: ricki/lara armor+shield, kamau no interpose, loot 3 chests
12: loot nearby locked chest
13: run back to lever 3 room
14: loot lever 3 locked chest
15: ??
My other estimations are
9: grab lockpicks
10: loot lever 3 locked chest
11: go to other locked chest
12: loot locked chest
13: start for rat treasure room
and
9: grab lockpicks
10: loot lever 3 locked chest, assault rat king
11 – ??: flip lever
Yup. The grates “slide” through the floor, blocking the level beneath. Unless we find a way to remotely flip the lever (like, attach a rope, get far away, pull on the rope, these kinds of things), then Ricky will be stuck there and Lara+Kamau would need to take care of the King and friends without Ricky’s help.. Sounds impossible. To be honest, it sounds impossible with Ricky’s help as well. Unless we find a way to seriously wear them down first, and Lara’s ranged 2dmg attack is too weak for that, unless it bypasses rats’ DEF for some reason (we actually didnt try yet! maybe we should do that now?)
Someone mentioned a chance that we find a ranged weapon in some chest. I do hope so as well, maybe it will open up some possibilities – but – let’s face it – with the exception of magic in form of Magic Wand and Dawn Mitre – ranged weapons tend to need ammo. We know that both bows and crossbows need arrows and bolts.. Finding a crossbow without arrows would be sooo…
Nooo way 😀
Somewhat useless idea: Pile of rats seem somewhat short. I wonder if it could actually attack Ricky, if she were standing on the chest near the lever. Still, it seems useless, as she’d need to get out passing by the rats anyways.
Do you think we should search/examine the skeleton which took a sword in the knee, I mean, head? The sword is clearly visible, previously a bow/etc were clearly visible, but these are large items. Could some small items be there, not noticed, until we explicitly ask someone to take a look at it?
If so, then any character that grabs the greatsword: take a quick look at the bones, is there anything else worth taking?